Barbados Association of Professional Engineers

Mechanical Engineer Calls on the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers (BAPE) to Address the Proposed Cahill Waste to Energy Plant

The following was submitted to the Facebook Group Bajans Against $700M Waster to Energy Plant by a Mechanical Engineer.
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My concerns are the true scale of the project, […]40MW, 60 MW, 70MW. Peak power demand in Barbados has averaged 125MW – 167MW over the last few years so this is 25 – 40% of the local electricity needs that can be supplied from this plant.

Light and Power has and Integrated Resource Plan where they have indicated a decommissioning schedule for equipment. What happens the day this plant has a failure and what are the contingencies in case that they cannot meet this demand? The document I read indicates that there will be no financial penalties in this regard. This is unacceptable.

What is the government’s plan for energy security in Barbados? Are there steps being taken for one comprehensive energy strategy instead of catching at every available technology that sounds good? Various documents and press releases over the years make mention of a landfill gas to energy and  a smaller conventional waste to energy both part of a 25MW at Mangrove Pond Green Energy Complex, a 25 MW biomass to energy facility at Andrews using bagasse and river tamarind (this facility could also process the same king grass). How many of these plants are actually going to come into fruition or will we be left with some white elephants? Where do the smaller or utility scale traditional (solar/wind) renewable energy projects fit in this scheme?

Biomass and WTE plants are geared towards baseload generation as they don’t have any problems with intermittency as long as there is a constant supply of whatever feedstock is supplying the facility. So these large plants will want to be the preferred electricity suppliers to the grid. At what cost? Is the cost of electricity going to be higher per kwh to consumers that current fossil fuel generation?

EIA and Grid impact studies which the GOB has nobly decided to foot the bill, another poor decision. Cahill was shopping around for somewhere to base this plant why are they not also footing the bill for these studies?

Building capacity and knowledge transfer. Stantec is engaged for the EIA consulting, Hatch Mott McDonald engaged for the engineering consulting, JADA engaged for the construction. Any plans to engage and enlighten local engineers and machine shops who will be left to operate, maintain, fabricate parts for, God forbid they actually go ahead with this plant?

Any plans to ask for an opinion from the local engineering body? I see Engineer Gibbs and Franklin have both published pieces in the media. I know as professionals in a small society that persons may not be keen to voice their opinions, no one wants to be ostracized from getting work, but I think that it would be remiss of BAPE if they did not give some opinion on the matter.

I do not support the construction of a plant this size on an island this small. When it breaks down, because that is inevitable will the spares be on hand or will we have to wait for spares to be flown/shipped in? What happens to the operation then, what happens to the waste? What happens to decommissioned equipment from this plant?

Just a few thoughts which have possibly been shared before. This is no small undertaking and as an engineer I cannot be opposed to innovation and the introduction of new technology but usually it is done after consideration of the risks involved and the best option is usually a mature, commercially proven option not a gamble. The IADB has said in one report that we (Barbados) under

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126 Comments on “Mechanical Engineer Calls on the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers (BAPE) to Address the Proposed Cahill Waste to Energy Plant”

  1. de Ingrunt Word July 21, 2015 at 6:54 PM #

    Oh good lawd, Pieces am I that transparent re your ‘I can see it now that you are at that parenting stage where because of your daily need with your children”.

    Good gracious me! Looka I gotta watch you again carefully, yuh! LOLL.

    OK, I get the drift den. So I dun wid that. I’ll leave them to Artax.

    Like

  2. David July 21, 2015 at 6:58 PM #

    @Dee Word

    Let us make it simple for you. We have a link above of an interview by Tony Kite Gibbs, an engineer, and instead of challenging his dispassionate analysis we have JAs scouring the Internet to post info not relevant to Barbados. How can you compare the deployment of smaller gasification plants when compared to the Cahill plant located in large and sometimes temperate land masses. And to boot none are commercially viable.

    Like

  3. Hants July 21, 2015 at 7:03 PM #

    @ de Ingrunt Word,

    I just wanted to be clear about my level of formal education. I am not an expert in anything except maybe …..fishing.

    Like

  4. Hants July 21, 2015 at 7:07 PM #

    @ Pieceuhderock,

    David put some medication on the Sports page for us old fellas. You can check it out but doan let de wife catch yuh. Serena….lol

    Like

  5. ac July 21, 2015 at 7:59 PM #

    Dee word just accept the facts and stop being a dic.Facts are hard to argue

    Like

  6. Kammie Holder July 21, 2015 at 8:28 PM #

    I am certain a 100 % renewable energy hybrid system with less risk can be found where international financier is willing to pay a 2 % commission

    Like

  7. Alvin Cummins July 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM #

    Is anyone thinking about the landfill? Is anybody thinking about disposal of the tyres; car, truck, SUV, tractor? Does anyone remember we had a serious fire recently with car tyres at Mangrove,AKA. Mt Stinkeroo? What is the proposed solution? Anyone?

    Like

  8. David July 21, 2015 at 8:34 PM #

    The solution for the tyres Alvin is that Paul Bynoe has a piece of equipment capable of shredding tyres and used as raw material to build toads.

    Like

  9. Gabriel July 21, 2015 at 8:55 PM #

    Dee Word
    The current leader among Republican candidates for Presidency of the USA is NOT Scott Walker but ….Donald Trump!!

    Like

  10. Colonel Buggy July 21, 2015 at 8:55 PM #

    Hants July 21, 2015 at 6:03 PM #

    I don’t have a University degree.
    ……………………………………………………….
    Check with Cinty Forde, she was dishing some at the BLP mass meeting outside Tyrol Cot ,a few Sunday nights ago.

    By the way a fellow on the block told me that when Mr Stuart , retires he could name his home Tyrant Cot.

    Like

  11. Hants July 21, 2015 at 9:14 PM #

    @ Colonel Buggy,

    I have great respect for people who have the discipline to study and get a university degree.

    Like

  12. Fractured BLP July 21, 2015 at 10:48 PM #

    Kammie Holder where you found that fraud Professor Connett from?

    Fooling people about the danger of WTE plants.

    Like

  13. Alvin Cummins July 21, 2015 at 11:01 PM #

    David,
    The shredded tyres will still have to be put in a landfill. Where would this “new” landfill be located? Even if they are buried, it has been shown that landfills still give off dangerous chemicals and material still leach into the soil. In other words, all over the world, and even in places with enough space that Barbados could fit into many times, they are becoming obsolete, and great efforts are made to find alternatives. You obviously have not read the “articles” I posted. Too much information I guess.

    Like

  14. Artaxerxes July 22, 2015 at 12:10 AM #

    Fractured BLP July 21, 2015 at 10:48 PM #

    “Kammie Holder where you found that fraud Professor Connett from?”

    Perhaps the same place you found that fraudulent “doctor” among you.

    Like

  15. Artaxerxes July 22, 2015 at 12:58 AM #

    I have noticed the protagonist of the WTE plant have been “copy and pasting” extracts from articles and posting them to BU in an effort to justify their support for the government and the decision to proceed with the plant.

    However, they seem to be missing one important factor in this scenario, which is TRANSPARENCY.

    Additionally, I also noticed that supporters have been referring to WTE plants in countries that are by far larger than Barbados, where such plants may be constructed in isolated areas, and any harmful effects to the population and environment could be adequately controlled.

    Perhaps these supporters could address the issue of transparency and confine their research to WTE plants in countries or islands with the size and economy (or there about) similar to that of Barbados, the effects those plants had on the environment, the long-term economic viability and cost benefit analysis report.

    Posting information would not be enough; they need to explain the information within the Barbadian context as well.

    It would not be surprising if the government decided NOT to proceed with the plant, those same individuals who are now supporting the government, would obviously not only CEASE TO SUPPORT THE PROJECT, but would “copy and paste” to BU, articles with information relative to why a WTE plant is NOT the ideal project for Barbados.

    Essentially, these individuals have no formal training in WTE plants and have not done any EXTENSIVE research. It’s all about pushing the DLP’s agenda.

    Like

  16. Kammie Holder July 22, 2015 at 3:38 AM #

    Dear Alvin, I respect your opinions however its clear your argument pro PG suitability for Barbados are not well researched. PAUL BYNOE WILL USE THE SHREDDED TIRE WHICH IS TIRE CRUMB FOR ROAD BUILDING, BIODIESEL FROM THE TIRES AND WIRE WOULD BE EXPORTED

    Like

  17. Kammie Holder July 22, 2015 at 3:40 AM #

    I took over a week or two to ascertain http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/70185/powdery-substance-pesticide

    Like

  18. Bush Tea July 22, 2015 at 6:44 AM #

    Shiite man Kammie….Just say what you have to.. and stop responding to ACs…

    Wunna is real jokes in truth…
    Wunna actually in serious discussion with a bunch of j(AC)kasses …?

    Give Bushie a break!

    When it comes to ACkasses
    that know not, and know not that they know not..
    It is wise to
    avoid serious discussions with them,
    least you be judged as a bird of a feather.

    After what alvin went through recently, we can forgive him for being screwed up.
    But the original ACkass has no one to blame but herself for wearing undersized underwear….
    …and squeezing all the shiite up by her brain.

    Like

  19. David July 22, 2015 at 6:51 AM #

    Alvin so far despite access to the Internet has not been able to differentiate between Cahill Energy, Cahill Energy Barbados. Cahill Canada etc.

    Like

  20. Bush Tea July 22, 2015 at 7:03 AM #

    @ David
    Yuh hear the man head mash up!!
    alvin is now about as coherent as the chipmunk by the same name….
    He beat the cancer….but he can’t escape the ‘AC’…

    Like

  21. ac July 22, 2015 at 7:31 AM #

    @bush shit alias deputy dawg. Pity the fool uh ole scroundel what a shit head when in many of your earlier contributions going back to when the idea of WTE plant was talked about for barbados you took to task those who said that such an idea was garbage. If any one has shit stuck in their underwear unquestionably it got to be u.you two faced hypocrite

    Like

  22. Alvin Cummins July 22, 2015 at 8:43 AM #

    @David,
    I know the difference between Cahill Energy, Cahill Engineering and Cahill Energy (Barbados), but it obvious from the replies given to my contributions by people like Bushie, Artra and other negative nabobs; who only know how to try to denigrate others, DO NOT know the differences.
    Why is it that now that the leader of the opposition suddenly realized that there is a difference that you and all her supporters are supporting her and calling for TRANSPARENCY? I already drew your attention to the ceremony that was held at Vaucluse over TWO YEARS ago, when the latest landfill cell was opened; you can check the plaque on the grounds at the entrance to it, NO one in your party raised any of the issues now being raised? They had a town hall meeting and representatives of Cahill, Sanitation Services, the minister the PS, and other officials were in attendance.What happened in the period between then and now?

    Artra, are you sure I am a “protagonist of”in the WTE debate? I am a Bajan whichever side I am on and I will always give my honest opinion, regardless, I don’t have to be on any particular side. But the old(er) people haD IT RIGHT “DO SO DON’T LIKE SO”. YOU ALL WANT TO SUPPORT YOUR SIDE COME HELL OR HIGH WATER, BUT CUSS OTHERS WHO SUPPORT THEIR SIDE WITH EQUAL ZEAL, and are able to counteract your opinions.
    You can’t stand on one foot all the time.

    When you are wrong you are wrong, admit it. When your opinions are flawed accept it and admit it.I don’t have to justify cutting an
    d pasting, that is just to show up those who admitted ignorance of the process of plasma gas WTE processes, the benefits and flaws, etc.

    Like

  23. are-we-there-yet July 22, 2015 at 8:57 AM #

    Kammie Holder, Re. your 3:40 am post, that is extremely bad news.

    I was hoping it was powder when one could, even somewhat improbably, dismiss it as a stupid prank. Now it is criminal.

    We need to know the identity of the pesticide, whether it was the neat active ingredient or a diluted formulation, the toxicity of the chemical, etc. to drill down on the extent of the criminality.

    But it looks bad.

    The fact that it was a pesticide points inexorably to the likelihood that it was a malicious act geared to forcibly sending a message to Mia Mottley and not a false flag operation.

    Stuart and his followers need to publicly call off their dogs and let the police do their work. But why do I think that is going to be an uphill battle since we have not even had him do anything about the vote buying which he observed in the last elections or pursue the alleged people who threatened the life of Sinckler?

    Like

  24. David July 22, 2015 at 9:02 AM #

    @Alvin

    The government has never held a Town Hall meeting to share on the Cahill issue. If you mean the Open House that was under the aegis of Cahill read the shelf company registered in Guernsey.

    Like

  25. Hants July 22, 2015 at 10:05 AM #

    http://www.cahill-energy.com/about-us/

    Like

  26. Artaxerxes July 22, 2015 at 10:07 AM #

    Alvin Cummins July 22, 2015 at 8:43 AM #

    “I know the difference between Cahill Energy, Cahill Engineering and Cahill Energy (Barbados), but it obvious from the replies given to my contributions by people like Bushie, Artra and other negative nabobs; who only know how to try to denigrate others, DO NOT know the differences.”

    Firstly, Cummins, I NEVER OFFERED AN OPINION ABOUT ANY DIFFERENCES OR SIMILARITIES BETWEEN Cahill Energy, Cahill Engineering and Cahill Energy (Barbados). Far too often you erroneously attribute contributions made by persons to those individuals who have not WRITTEN them.

    Either you don’t read thoroughly and comprehend or perhaps in your zeal to represent the DLP’s agenda, you overlook those important details.

    Secondly, surely you must admit that you have been “copy and pasting” from articles and posting them to BU as yours means of trying to substantiate your position. However, you FAILED to offer any explanation as to their relevance to Barbados’ situation.
    That, Cummins, is unacceptable in any argument. This is expected of someone who lacks comprehension skills.

    Thirdly, as it relates to your comments, re “When you are wrong you are wrong, admit it. When your opinions are flawed accept it and admit it.”

    I make it a habit to contribute on matters or issues of which I have the REQUISITE KNOWLEDGE and TRAINING. As such, I make it a habit NOT to comment on issues I do not know anything about.

    Hence, I made ONLY ONE contribution on this topic, in which I asked about TRANSPARENCY and for you to EXPLAIN the WTE plant within the Barbadian context, since the countries mentioned in your “posts” are much larger than Barbados.

    What is so NEGATIVE about my questions and how can you relate these questions to your suggestion I should admit being wrong, when I did NOT OFFER ANY OPINION on the WTE plant in the first place?

    There goes your comprehension skills again.

    Cummins, you have recognized that the comments and opinions of your fellow DLP supporters on BU are often UNSUBSTANTIATED and WEAK and other contributors take pleasure in highlighting these flaws.

    So, you have decided to take up the mantle, by challenging contributors who, in your opinion, are “BLP operatives,” by referring to internet articles as the basis of that challenge. In other words, you want to be in a different category than your colleagues on BU.

    You have failed miserably.

    Unfortunately, you are of the misguided opinion that “surfing” a few web-sites and regurgitating the information contained therein, makes you an intellectual. You must be reminded that ordinary web-sites are not authenticated and referring to information from those sites in this forum, although it may satisfy your objectives, the information is not credible.

    However, as someone who knows much better, I prefer to seek credible information from sites that are authenticated for research.

    Like

  27. Hants July 22, 2015 at 10:08 AM #

    @ David,

    sea SHELLs on the seashore. lol

    Like

  28. Artaxerxes July 22, 2015 at 10:10 AM #

    *****I make it a habit NOT to contribute on matters or issues of which I have the REQUISITE KNOWLEDGE and TRAINING.

    Like

  29. Hants July 22, 2015 at 10:14 AM #

    I hope the design of the WTE plant is being modified to withstand earthquakes.

    Like

  30. Due Diligence July 22, 2015 at 10:54 AM #

    Hants July 22, 2015 at 10:05 AM #

    http://www.cahill-energy.com/news-posts/making-progress-bdos-will-soon-benefit-from-waste-to-energy-project/

    From the April 1, 2015 Advocate story

    “We are committed to this project and working with the Government to deliver it to people of Barbados,” the CEO promised. She noted that the project is reliant on the continued co-operation of the Government and welcomed Minister, Dr. Denis Lowe’s confirmation that the Section 5 is imminent.

    According to her, the investors due here next month will be meeting with Minister of the Environment, Dr. Denis Lowe; Minister of Finance and Economic Affairs, Christopher Sinckler; Agriculture Minister, Dr. David Estwick; and Senator Darcy Boyce who has responsibility for Energy.

    “When people see our success in Barbados, I think that will spur other investors to come on board and follow on with other investments,” she said, noting that her company is very excited about the plans.

    This is a groundbreaking project built with world-class technology that will be showcased around the world”

    It is now July 22., 2015. Please tell us what happened to “the investors due here next month” (May 2015)

    Like

  31. Tell me Why July 22, 2015 at 10:59 AM #

    They had a town hall meeting and representatives of Cahill, Sanitation Services, the minister the PS, and other officials were in attendance.What happened in the period between then and now?

    Alvin, simple….lies, lies and more lies.

    Why is it that almost every negotiation involving Environmental matters keep running into a snag. Maybe we have the wrong captain that is clueless.

    Will we have another “Ministerial Statement” this time to justify Cahill and the $700 million. Remember. These statements cannot be challenged within Parliament. I agree with Artaxerxes that Barbados is far to small and vulnerable for such a large (unknown) wastage plant. What if an explosion occur, Barbados is too small for anyone to hide. I see no substantial benefit for Barbados….probably, to be the biggest dumbert in the region. Maybe the ability to advance financially.

    Like

  32. St George's Dragon July 22, 2015 at 11:16 AM #

    According to apostle Lynroy Scantlebury, god is “….shifting an oil vein from Trinidad and Venezuela, and he’s bringing that oil to Barbados. So these tremors are really to adjust the country, so that the oil can really begin to come inland here in Barbados”.
    Is he the guy that wrote the business case for the WTE plant?

    Like

  33. Colonel Buggy July 22, 2015 at 4:36 PM #

    How are we going to dispose of these Electric car batteries in another 10/15 years or so? Will they like many of the common lead acid batteries end up in the landfill ,if there is still one.

    Like

  34. Hants July 22, 2015 at 6:45 PM #

    Due Dilligence wrote “Please tell us what happened to “the investors due here next month”

    They smelled the garbage and decided to stay away until after the strike.

    Like

  35. Hants July 22, 2015 at 8:29 PM #

    @ Due Dilligence,

    Bajans vex.

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/70206/cahill-principals-facing-heat-residents

    Like

  36. Colonel Buggy July 22, 2015 at 10:19 PM #

    St George’s Dragon July 22, 2015 at 11:16 AM #
    …………………………………………………………………………..
    God had no need to go to all of that trouble. All He had to do was to instruct the Trinis , to make the natural gas pipe line they are planning to bring to Barbados, a bigger duplex type one, to accommodate, oil as well as gas.

    Like

  37. Fractured BLP July 22, 2015 at 11:28 PM #

    A lovely meeting at LESC with the Cahill developers.

    The white Bajan community outnumbered their black Bajan counterparts.

    Wow…. ..Cahill brought out the ‘white shadows’

    Thank you, Cahill.

    Like

  38. Alvin Cummins July 23, 2015 at 11:37 AM #

    @Artra”
    I have never tried to give the impression that the articles copied and pasted were mine. I deliberately indicated that these were from various sources and were intended to disseminate the information for the knowledge of those who do not have the information or the inclination to look to look it up. I usually enclose this information in inverted comas to show they are not MY works. I have given references: e.g.. Yale University, British Medical Journal etc, so they could never be construed as MY works. I am above that.
    The CONCEPT is relevant to Barbados, because of the need to reduce the amount of material designated for the landfill and the absence of any land for another landfill. The size of the plant to be constructed will have to be modified to suit the Barbadian situation. This is yet the planning stage. Nothing has been finalizes. An MOU is not a final agreement.U
    Later.

    Like

  39. de Ingrunt Word July 23, 2015 at 12:44 PM #

    @Cummings, according to Dr. Lowe’s Budget presentation the plant seemed to be a done deal pending the financing from the investors.

    His remarks which I am sure you heard suggested that the TP dept had conducted extensive research to validate that this plant would not be a ‘catastrophic’ event for Barbados. Moreso, and more telling they had also approved the construction/planning of the leaching treatment plant to provide the water to act as the cooling agent for the plant.

    So listening to these and other remarks like ‘we had finally settled on a plant’ after what he suggested were ‘diverse’ views it seemed quite clear that this was well past the planning as they were only awaiting the financing to essentially start to turn the sod.

    But heh, if you are now convinced and are thus also convincing all Bajans that in fact the project is no further along that ‘a planning stage’ and that the signed MOUs are no really binding agreements then we applaud that sleight of hand magician’s trick or treat really, which was offered up by Dr. Lowe.

    And I also applaud YOUR dissembling skills. Your are clearly a high level BS’er!

    Like

  40. Hants July 23, 2015 at 12:57 PM #

    WARNING !!!!!!!

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/70234/volcano-alert-level-orange

    Like

  41. Clone July 23, 2015 at 2:08 PM #

    Can the engineers please tell us where in Barbados should we go if there is a tsunami with 100 ft waves.

    Like

  42. de Ingrunt Word July 23, 2015 at 2:58 PM #

    Clone, if after all these years of warnings and advice re the underwater volcano then clearly you must be joking.

    Do you need an engineer to tell you the obvious!

    Like

  43. Hants July 23, 2015 at 3:36 PM #

    @ Clone,

    Find a topological map of Barbados and figure it out.

    Hint. West Moreland and Warrens should be safe.

    Like

  44. Hants July 23, 2015 at 3:47 PM #

    sorry Clone “Topographical”

    Like

  45. Hants July 23, 2015 at 3:48 PM #

    This will help Clone.

    http://www.floodmap.net/Elevation/CountryElevationMap/?ct=BB

    Like

  46. are-we-there-yet July 23, 2015 at 5:28 PM #

    Hants;

    I really appreciate that link you gave us to floodmap.net. The maps are extremely informative. For example I did not know that the elevation of “the valley” was no greater than the elevations of the areas close to bridgetown although I really should have realised it as it is obvious when travelling on any of the ridges looking down onto the “the valley”.

    I went shopping to replenish my hurricane supplies this afternoon!

    Like

  47. Clone July 23, 2015 at 8:01 PM #

    Thanks Hants
    Really interesting

    Like

  48. Clone July 23, 2015 at 8:08 PM #

    It is not obvious that Barbadians know where to go if a tsunami strikes lets say the South coast.

    Specific areas inland should be identify at least two miles inland with an elevation of over 30.I got that info from a website which gives advice on earthquakes and tsunamis

    Like

  49. David July 26, 2015 at 4:07 PM #

    All of Barbados continues to wait on BAPE, engineers who gave been educated with tax dollars, to make a statement.

    Like

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