Barbados Bankers’ Association the New Third Party?

Donna Wellington, President, Barbados Bankers’ Association (BBA).

Submitted by Caswell Franklyn, General Secretary, Unity Workers Union

It is no secret that I believe that the present DLP administration is bad for Barbados. Now it appears that this view is shared by the Barbados Bankers’ Association (BBA). They have announced that due to a “lack of clarity” on the process involved in the issuance of tax clearance certificates by the Barbados Revenue Authority (BRA), banks had to suspend real estate transactions. As a result, banks have suspended approximately $221 million worth of real estate related transactions.

I could be wrong but I don’t believe so; to my mind, that announcement is double speak to say that the Government is bad for business and they are prepared to take short term losses to help rid the country of this DLP administration.

I firmly believe that the announcement is a calculated move to influence political change. When the banks put pressure on potential borrowers and blame their actions on the BRA, those borrowers would become angry with the Government. People who could not get loans would not be happy with the DLP and come voting time that anger would be reflected in the results.

Even though I believe that the BBA and I share the view that the DLP is bad for business, I deplore the method adopted by them. They should be patriotically urging taxpayers to pay their fair share of the tax burden that is being heaped upon the people of this country.

I would advise the Barbados Bankers’ Association to stay away from involvement in politics on the sly and be honest enough to declare their hand.

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147 Comments on “Barbados Bankers’ Association the New Third Party?”

  1. de pedantic Dribbler May 28, 2017 at 11:02 AM #

    @Caswell at 9:29 AM …why such a merry-go-around re “… in a case where a person is indebted to Government and is trying to sell a piece of land to settle his indebtedness. He can’t sell because he does not have a tax clearance and he can’t get a tax clearance unless he sells the land in order to clear his indebtedness.”

    If it’s a forced sale to clear the tax debt then (1) wouldn’t the gov’t be the ones ‘auctioning’ or completing the deal after ‘taking over’ the property or (2) the lawyers would be mandated as a first step to clear the tax debt from proceeds of the sale.

    Essentially a ‘purchase’ is being made of the seller’s tax clearance certificate as an integral and mandatory aspect of the sale.

    Surely no bureaucracy can be so fraught with red-tape that such a simple thing becomes a stupid ‘tautology’ of self defeating non action.

    Like

  2. Bajan in NY May 28, 2017 at 12:17 PM #

    @David May 27, 2017 at 7:15 PM #
    The recording are usually posted on parliament’s website. There will be no problem accessing audio.

    Thanks for the information David, I was not aware.

    Like

  3. NorthernObserver May 28, 2017 at 3:36 PM #

    I have to think something is being overlooked.

    Banks shy away from liability, not from profit making opportunities. Hence there is likely something their legal beagles have found, where they see liability exposure, if certain steps are not followed.

    The Canadian banks are not known for doing anything publicly, which can be seen as meddling in politics.

    Like

  4. Bernard Codrington. May 28, 2017 at 4:31 PM #

    Northern Observer at 3: 36 pm.

    Canadian banks are generally risk – averse. They tend to be overcautious in their lending and investment practices. And that includes taking political risks. It is the main characteristic that kept them virtually immunized from the derivative market. I therefore agree with your observation.

    Like

  5. Simple Simon May 28, 2017 at 11:53 PM #

    @de pedantic Dribbler May 28, 2017 at 11:02 AM “Surely no bureaucracy can be so fraught with red-tape that such a simple thing becomes a stupid ‘tautology’ of self defeating non action.”

    Then clearly you don’t know Bajan bureaucracy.

    Like

  6. Simple Simon May 29, 2017 at 12:12 AM #

    @de pedantic Dribbler May 28, 2017 at 11:02 AM “If it’s a forced sale to clear the tax debt…”

    But what if it is not a forced sale? What if I just want to come clean with BRA. Sell the property which is worth $200,000 so that I can pay BRA the $100,000 which I owe them, this debt includes property tax, VAT, municipal solid waste tax etc.

    I don’t have $100,000 cash, the bank won’t lend me any money for this real estate transaction because I can’t get a tax clearance certificate because I owe BRA. So I can’t sell, and I can’t pay my debt even thought I want to.

    Do you understand now?

    if you don’t understand read Kafka, then you will understand how our government works.

    Like

  7. Simple Simon May 29, 2017 at 12:15 AM #

    I know a few BRA people, and I know a few Inland Revenue people, some retired, some currently working for BRA, some who have left BRA because there is no way they would be caught dead working there under this current administration and these people all foresaw the conundrum which would occur with the legislation/regulation as it is.

    It is not working, because it can’t work.

    Like

  8. Simple Simon May 29, 2017 at 12:26 AM #

    This is the same government which was unable to implement fingerprinting at the ports because the legislation/regulation was written in such a way that the government made no provision for a Bajan returning to Barbados who refused to be finger printed.

    I came on this blog and asked what would the government do to such a person.

    Send them away? And if the Bajan had only Bajan citizenship where did the Barbados government plan to send these refusers?

    Permit them entry without the fingerprinting, then would that not defeat the purpose of the law?

    Permit them entry and jail them? And how long would the government jail a citizen for a civil offense? For life? And who would pay to keep the refusers in jail?

    So the law /regulation was not implemented because it could not be implemented as written, unless the government thought that any other government wold take in Bajans when the Barbados government refuses to do so.

    Cabinet needs to sit down with their very smart senior technocrats and LISTEN to sensible experienced people.

    Or they can do what the U.S. Internal Revenue Service does, Once a court order is made to collect money or money’s worth from a delinquent tax payer send an armed IRS agent out to collect the money, or seize the car or lorry or whatever.

    Like

  9. Simple Simon May 29, 2017 at 12:31 AM #

    The technical staff at BRA anticipated this problem, this conundrum. I am not sure if they did not tell the Finance Minister, if the Finance Minister did not listen or whether he did not understand.

    So don’t blame BRA for this one. There is no need to fire anyone at BRA but perhaps the time has come when the people will need to fire the Finance Minister, the Prime Minister, and the whole Cabinet, and the one or two back benchers.

    Imagine using a rusty old Collins to solve a problem when what you need is a skilled surgeon and the finest scalpel.

    Like

  10. David May 29, 2017 at 6:51 AM #

    Caswell to be fair we have to label the Bar a third party as well.

    Like

  11. Caswell Franklyn May 29, 2017 at 7:07 AM #

    Everybody knows that. They have always been. I merely called out the Bankers’ Association because they were lurking in the shadows and doing their political business.

    Sent from my iPad

    Like

  12. Vincent Haynes May 29, 2017 at 7:12 AM #

    BAR, BRA FACE-OFF
    THE BARBADOS REVENUE AUTHORITY ACT may be challenged in the law courts if it isn’t repealed.The Bar Association, at an extraordinary meeting of its membership last…
    nationnews.com
    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/97259/bar-bra

    Like

  13. Hal Austin May 29, 2017 at 7:17 AM #

    Bernard,,
    The elephant n the room in this nonsense is that the ban on residential lending by the foreign-owned banks is clear evidence of a cartel in operation. Cartels are illegal in every civilised country. What is the minister/regulator/police going to do about it?
    Stop the nonsense about the BRA, that is a side issue.

    Like

  14. William Skinner May 29, 2017 at 8:19 AM #

    This discussion bears out the fundamental problem we have; everything is seen through narrow political lens. Here we have banks, literally attempting to grind an already precarious economy, to a halt by making a unilateral decision to stop servicing ALL citizens because they have a problem with what are simply the teething problems of new tax collection methods. To embarrass a government, and further destroy the economy, we are asking for the legislation to be scrapped because citizens must be allowed to do as they please , without making any contribution to the treasury.
    Suddenly, the banks that have been doing a number on us with all kinds of excessive service charges, are to be seen as the new gatekeepers. Banks that are known to discriminate against black business people; and are not willing to engage in any progressive policies outside of fleecing a very gullible public. Eric Williams or Errol Barrow would have had them gone within forty eight hours for this high handed nonsense.
    On the other hand we have a legal fraternity , some of whose members have dealt some serious financial blows to citizens, who entrusted them , to handle real estate and other financial matters, masquerading as angels of light.
    The comedy must be a precursor to crop over.

    Like

  15. Artax May 29, 2017 at 8:32 AM #

    Simple Simon May 29, 2017 at 12:15 AM #

    “I know a few BRA people, and I know a few Inland Revenue people, some retired, some currently working for BRA, some who have left BRA because there is no way they would be caught dead working there under this current administration and these people all foresaw the conundrum which would occur with the legislation/regulation as it is.”

    @ Simple Simon

    I agree with your above comments. Over the years, I became familiar with many Inland Revenue officers because I had to communicate and interact with them when I’m acting on behalf of clients.

    Many of the former Inland Revenue employees told me the one of the main reasons why they opted not to work with the BRA is because the current Revenue Commissioner, Margaret Sivers, expertise is not taxation, as was the expertise of former Commissioner of Inland Revenue, Sabina Walcott-Denny, who is much more qualified for the job.

    Unfortunately, based on my experience, many of the new BRA officers are not au fait with taxation issues and often give conflicting advice. They cannot give, for example, proper information on filing tax returns for partnerships, and it is only recently that filing could be done on-line.

    Advice from the old staff IR that remained is not taken into consideration. Government prefers to hire consultants, such as one who was paid $15,000 per month for over one year, to implement a new computerized system, which remained “troublesome” at the time his consultancy was over.

    Another issue I have with the BRA is a female security officer who is stationed in the lobby. This guard does not have any manners, is very rude to customers and not suitable to interact with the public. Numerous complaints about her behavior have not been acted upon, evidenced by the fact she remains at that station and her behavior has not changed.

    As Barbadians would say, the BRA “began before it was ready.”

    Like

  16. Artax May 29, 2017 at 9:04 AM #

    @ Simple Simon

    Despite the BRA’s “indiscretions” you can’t be over critical of them in this situation.

    I have mentioned numerous times in this forum that operators of public service vehicles (B, BT, H, HL, Z, ZM, and ZR) have to apply for tax and NIS clearance certificates from the BRA and NI Department respectively, before they can pay the relevant road taxes.

    My experience with applying for these tax clearances for clients is that the process takes no more than 10 minutes. During this time an officer checks the system to verify if the applicant filed an income tax return and payment taxes due are outstanding. If the applicant satisfies these two requirements the certificate is printed and signed by a senior officer and you are on your way.

    I don’t believe tax clearance for real estate would take an inordinate amount of time to process, as some contributors seem to be suggesting.

    What is disturbing is against the background of charging excessive or irrelevant fees for banking transactions, it seems as though these “autonomous” banks have a self imposed authority to make unilateral decisions relative to government policy.

    What is wrong with discussing the issues with the BRA and if they are not satisfied, then take action.

    Like

  17. Carson C. Cadogan May 29, 2017 at 7:35 PM #

    I just cant understand why the Barbados Labour Party and the Bar assoc. are in the forefront of trying to prevent RICH people from paying their fair share of taxes? Lawyers steal clients money every year and not a word of condemnation is heard from the Bar Assoc.

    Like

  18. Caswell Franklyn May 29, 2017 at 8:12 PM #

    Carson

    If you don’t understand it, you probably would never understand anything. They are most likely among the RICH people who are not paying their taxes.

    Sent from my iPad

    Like

  19. Artax May 29, 2017 at 9:31 PM #

    Carson C. Cadogan May 29, 2017 at 7:35 PM #

    “I just cant understand why the Barbados Labour Party and the Bar assoc. are in the forefront of trying to prevent RICH people from paying their fair share of taxes? Lawyers steal clients money every year and not a word of condemnation is heard from the Bar Assoc.”

    @ CCC

    Excellent point, CCC!!!

    Perhaps you should also mention the FRAUDULENT invoice that the law firm Thompson & Associates prepared, as reveled by the Deloitte forensic audit, which indicated a number of legal services were rendered to CLICO that were in actuality a payment for Leroy Parris, on which 15% VAT on $3.333M was NOT INCLUDED on the invoice and NOT PAID.

    Surely you must agree that, in this instance, “the (DLP) and the Bar assoc. are in the forefront of trying to prevent RICH people from paying their fair share of taxes.”

    Additionally, you are also correct in your comments re: “Lawyers steal clients money every year and not a word of condemnation is heard from the Bar Assoc,” because I cannot remember reading any comment from the Bar Association relative to Michael Carrington’s dastardly deed of with-holding (a fancy word for stealing) his wheel chair bound, senior citizen client’s funds for over two years, while blatantly ignoring his requests for the sum to be paid.

    By the way CCC, you must agree that over charging for services rendered to any government agency is essentially stealing from the Crown. Hence, I also recall not hearing a “word of condemnation” from the Bar Association where another lawyer, Richard Byer, charged Caves of Barbados $766,855.24 for services that were similarly rendered by another lawyer for $17,000.

    Like

  20. David May 30, 2017 at 3:07 AM #

    Caswell do you know if the BRA has initiated an investigation against Leroy Parris based on revelations so far?

    Like

  21. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 3:17 AM #

    David,

    The BRA is dysfunctional and not fit or purpose. It is Chris Sinckler’s baby. In the case of Mr Parris, if the state has a case against him they must bring charges. Otherwise the whispers and public abuse are not only undemocratic, but infringes his human rights.

    Like

  22. David May 30, 2017 at 4:36 AM #

    @Hal Read this story and spotted some learnings for you.

    Sportswriter Who Made Racist Comment About Indy 500 Winner Just Got What He Deserves

    Like

  23. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 4:46 AM #

    David,
    The US interned Japanese Americans during WW2. Racism is a deep part of liberal democratic culture.

    Like

  24. Bush Tea May 30, 2017 at 7:20 AM #

    It REALLY is amazing how everyone seems to give a free pass to the jokers in the BRA who fail to enforce clear and unquestioned laws to collect outstanding taxes due to the state …. and then bring pressure on OTHER citizens to do their dirty work for them.

    PLEASE tell Bushie again why bankers should be enforcing tax laws for BRA?

    Only confirmed and certified Bajan brass bowls would default to a process where ordinary citizens are required to check with the tax authorities to see who owes money so that otherwise LEGAL business can be withheld until such liabilities are settled.

    This is the IDENTICAL shiite thinking that led to the ‘tipping fee’ and the Shiite tax, so Bushie cannot fault Stinkliar for it …. cause it is obvious that he is an idiot…
    But for ‘educated’ Bajans to fall YET AGAIN for such idiocy tells the bushman that there are THOUSANDS of Stinkliars bout the damn place….

    If BRA KNOWS who is in tax compliance…and who is NOT… then Stinkliar and Snivers needs to tell the public exactly WHY they themselves are unable to do their damn jobs…
    How the hell do they get to draw their salaries every month while doing squat … and making honest people’s lives miserable…

    Lotta shiite….
    Go Bankers!!!

    Like

  25. Caswell Franklyn May 30, 2017 at 8:21 AM #

    Neither have they initiated investigations into all those general secretaries who got duty free cars and who refuse to pay the relevant taxes, even though the Revenue Commissioner promised me that she would do her job without fear of favour. You must therefore ask: Was she allowed?

    Sent from my iPad

    Like

  26. Artax May 30, 2017 at 8:26 AM #

    “In the case of Mr Parris, if the state has a case against him they must bring charges. Otherwise the whispers and public abuse are not only undemocratic, but infringes his human rights.”

    RUBBISH… as usual.

    Seems as though “the whispers and public abuse” the author extends to others, via this forum, are not only in his opinion “democratic, but does not infringe their human rights.”

    Like

  27. Bush Tea May 30, 2017 at 8:44 AM #

    @ Artax
    If you knew Hal at school you would be completely unsurprised at some of the nonsense that he spouts…. besides, he has not been around here for forty years – yet he feels qualified to prescribe like Bushie …who got roots all over the damn place…
    Steupsss…. to his credit… he occasionally ask some good questions….

    …but then again you still have a lotta school-days habits too…
    LOL
    ha ha ha ha
    Wuhloss…

    Like

  28. Artax May 30, 2017 at 8:54 AM #

    Yeah, Bushie…. and this “whacker” thing is a school-days thing, too…….. I had one at school.

    Hahahahaha

    Like

  29. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 8:55 AM #

    @ Artax

    I am full of rubbish, but what is rubbish about making a case for the rule of law: if there is a case against the accused, then charge him, if not let him be. I know Barbadian reasoning is such that to be accused is to be guilty. Ask those 13 yr old school kids now before the courts.

    @ Bushie

    Wrong again. I did not go to school. Wrong person.

    Like

  30. millertheanunnaki May 30, 2017 at 9:07 AM #

    @ Caswell FranklynMay 30, 2017 at 8:21 AM

    And you see where many of the fiscal problems lie? Not with the bankers objection to the need for tax clearance certificates but with the sheer managerial incompetence and the blatant partisan politicization of the BRA as prevails at other statutory bodies like the Transport Board, CBC, RDC and UDC.

    If the BRA was ‘managed’ by a politically fearless and competent BoD and executive team many of the country’s fiscal issues would not be glaringly festering with such open nasty wounds being treated by the ineffective imposition of additional taxation which the idiot MoF would soon be announcing.

    Barbados is not geographically large and socially diverse corrupt Nigeria but a 2×3 island with a simple economy with a modern ITC infrastructure available for use.

    Like

  31. Carson C. Cadogan May 30, 2017 at 9:29 AM #

    ARTAX

    The next time you see Mr. Mia Mottley or your other Lawyer friends don’t neglect to tell them that the system will not be repealed.

    The RICH will have to pay their share of taxes just like the rest of us. Pay unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.

    And by the way the Banks holding up all Real estate transactions is really a good thing for the country. One of the things we said that we would do on being elected to office would be to reduce the wholesale selling of Barbados. As a result the Banks are unwittingly playing into our hands.

    Real estate transactions which would see the transfer of large chunks of Barbados into foreign hands have now been halted. I am very happy about that. Real estate transactions which would see properties and land being transferred into the hands of INDIANS and thus being lost the BLACK Bajans forever have now been halted and I hope forever.

    So in a way THANK YOU local Banks. I know that this was not your intention but thanks anyway.

    Like

  32. millertheanunnaki May 30, 2017 at 9:50 AM #

    @ Hal AustinMay 30, 2017 at 8:55 AM

    Hal you are speaking with a forked tongue as far as this matter is concerned.

    Who is going to charge and prosecute the “estimable person” with big friends in very high places when the person ‘legally empowered’ to institute such proceedings is the same person whom you constantly referred to as that “incompetent Guyanese-born DPP”?

    You need to get your ducks all lined up before shooting your mouth off.

    You are dealing with socially incestuous Barbados where nepotism is the passport for blatant law-breaking.

    Ask the Baloney fella and the rich man who killed his son while “cleaning” his gun how easy it is to get those in charge to look the other way’ whereas, on the other hand, an ordinary man with no such connections is charged for the killing of his young child by leaving it locked in the back seat of a vehicle.

    You see how easy it is to charge children for fighting while those in high places who commit similar wrong and illegal acts are invited to sit as directors on statutory boards?

    Like

  33. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 10:13 AM #

    What is the problem? Speaking with a forked tongue, corruption, a failed state? Is this the society that claims to be developed?
    All I am saying, something that right thinking Barbadians should support, is that no matter the person or problem, they will be treated fairly, that is what the rule of law is all about.
    If there is a case against senior Clico executives in Barbados, then prosecute them; and t hat should have been done before the joke of a so-called judicial management review.
    What is wrong with that?
    About the judicial abuse of those children, that is evil on par with the worst of China. Does it mean every school kid that gets in to a fight will be prosecuted? It is judicial barbarism; a brain dead criminal justice system.

    Like

  34. Artax May 30, 2017 at 10:51 AM #

    @ Hal Austin

    Rubbish again!!!!

    The following excerpt was taken from page 7 of Deloitte’s “Forensic Audit of CLICO International Life Insurance Ltd. report as of June 21, 2013.”

    “Payment to Thompson and Associates: Our report dated December 5, 2011 noted that our analysis of CIL intercompany balances revealed a January 16, 2009 payment to Thompson and Associates for $3.333M, made by CIL on behalf of CHBI. The payment was supported by an invoice purportedly from Thompson and Associates dated December 30, 2008. Other documents we viewed showed that this payment was apparently made pursuant to a letter agreement dated December 5, 2002, which we have been unable to locate, and a May 15, 2005 agreement between CHBL, CL Financial Limited and Professional Financial Services Inc. (PFS), a company apparently owned and or controlled by Mr. Leroy Parris, the former Chairman and CEO of CIL and CHBL.”

    “As of the date of our 2011 report, we found that payment was in the nature of a gratuity pursuant to the above noted agreements and was NOT in respect of the “Fees and Expenses” described on the Thompson and Associates invoice.”

    “The invoice was SIGNED as APPROVED by Mr. Leroy Parris as Chairman of CHBL.”

    I also invite you to READ pages 8 to 12 of the aforementioned report.

    Anyone, who upon reading the report, would not have to rely on the state to bring charges against Parris to reasonably conclude that such action is TANTAMOUNT to FRAUD.

    If CLICO was legally and legitimately obligated to pay Parris a gratuity in the sum of $3.333M, why would he have to undertake a QUESTIONABLE PROCESS of having a “related party” (Thompson & Associates) prepare an invoice to FACILITATE payment of that obligation, under the guise of RENDERING legal services to CLICO?

    Also, the authenticity of the invoice also comes into question where a VAT registered law firm issues an invoice, net of VAT and without the company’s VAT registration number.

    Under these circumstances, where is the evidence to suggest that, where an individual comes to reasonable conclusion (and NOT an assumption), based on certain information received, they are “making a case for the rule of law?”

    Based on your logic, then you would dismiss the results of the forensic report as being irrelevant because the state has not brought a case against Parris.

    The only people that want to hold Parris up as innocent in this matter, are you and the man on the “Cream of Wheat” box.

    Like

  35. Artax May 30, 2017 at 11:24 AM #

    @ Carson C. Cadogan

    I cannot tell Mia Mottley anything because the only time I see her is on television. And I do not have lawyer friends either.

    Perhaps you are the one with the “lawyer friends,” since it is being REPORTED as FACT that you are indeed Michael Lashley using CCC’s name to spout your rhetorical political diatribe via social media.

    If that assumption is NOT true, then it is ironic that you are using BU to freely insult Mia Mottley everyday about mentioning lesbian and same sex marriages, but would like to SILENCE Naked Departure when that forum leaks interesting stories about your “kith and kin.”

    I have personal knowledge of a case involving your “lawyer friend” who also duped a “returning national” of a considerable amount of money and the case, which is yet to be heard, has the client frustrated at the DELAYS in court system.

    But when Omar videotaped and posted to social media, your “lawyer friend” running for his life after a man “washed him in licks,” he felt aggrieved and sought assistance of the law courts, which ironically “IMMEDIATELY EXPEDITED” the case.

    Your “lawyer friend” also felt aggrieved when “Naked Departure” presented a number of articles, and “proof” in some instances, which associated him with a certain vehicular accident. And he canvassed for the “shutting down” of the ND website.

    CCC is always mentioning on BU making pejorative statements about Muslims, yet his “lawyer friend” appointed a former DLP candidate, who is also a Muslim, as Chairman of a certain department, and we have seen ZR permits significantly increased to ZR405 (a route 11 route taxi) and owned by Muslims.

    You should ponder on these things!!!

    Like

  36. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 11:29 AM #

    Artax,

    I am embarrassed to think you are a lawyer. I am not and it is clear to me that if the state had forensic evidence they would have brought charges. Gossip is not evidence.
    In any jurisdiction – at least in England and Wales, which I know quite well – if there was a prima facie case against any senior executives of Clico the duty of the state would be to bring charges, not leave it to a load of retired semi-educated idiots to pontificate in a discussion forum about the integrity of the suspects. There may well be a case, but delay is unjust.
    This has been on the boil for years, even in the incompetent jurisdiction of Barbados that is more than enough time to bring charges.
    Artax, you have wasted your money on your legal education. Ask for it back. I hope your clients get a better service, but I doubt it. Fraud is a crime, mis-management is not.
    By the way, I hope to be in Barbados soonish and will be prepared to debate the legality of this case with you in public, if you so desire.;

    Like

  37. Artax May 30, 2017 at 12:48 PM #

    @ Hal Austin

    And what QUALIFIES you to CONCLUDE or DETERMINE that any EVIDENCE presented as a result of a FORENSIC AUDIT is gossip?

    You seem to be suggesting that ALL contributors to BU are “retired semi-educated idiots.” Since you are retired, I’m sure you’re included in that characterization. However, since I am far from retirement age, I’ll settle for being a “semi-educated idiot.”

    Also, where in any of my contributions I INDICATED or SUGGESTED I am a LAWYER? I guess such conclusions are often made by “retired semi-educated idiots” such as yourself or perhaps because you are a Pulitzer prized investigative journalist.

    You never cease to amaze me with your condescending sanctimonious attitude. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING in Barbados is WRONG, while Hal Austin is CORRECT.

    You are CRITICAL of every BU contributor, economist, accountant, lawyer, doctor, nurse, pharmacist, engineer, surveyor, university lecturer, the university and everything possible person or thing in Barbados. You even dismiss Jeff Cumberbatch’s views on law and he is a lawyer and law lecturer.

    You must be a very lonely man to come to this forum just to be critical.

    Join the UK version of BARP.

    Like

  38. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 12:56 PM #

    Aretax,

    First, I know you can be economical with the truth. I have never been dismissive of Jeff Cumberbatch. In fact, I have called for a campaign to make Jeff a QC. I may not agree with everything he says, but bow to his expertise on local law. I deliberately only contribute on discussions on which I have had training or experience.
    As to being condescending, I believe I am too polite to be rude.
    Fundamentally, unless evidence is subjected to cross-examination in a court of law, it is hearsay (ie gossip). That is the law of evidence.

    Like

  39. Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:02 PM #

    @ Hal Austin

    And “I am (equally) embarrassed to think you are a (journalist).”

    Fraud may be defined as “wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.”

    How can you conclude that issuing an invoice for “A” to facilitate the payment of “B,” is defined as mis-management and not fraud?

    Like

  40. Prodigal Son May 30, 2017 at 1:07 PM #

    @Carson C. Cadogan May 29, 2017 at 7:35 PM #

    I just cant understand why the Barbados Labour Party and the Bar assoc. are in the forefront of trying to prevent RICH people from paying their fair share of taxes? Lawyers steal clients money every year and not a word of condemnation is heard from the Bar Assoc.
    …………………………………………………………………….

    You are bold as brass to actually write the above comment……….and yet you and the dems
    defended Carrywayaton …………a disgrace who still sits in the chair of the honourable house.

    You guys are rich in hypocrisy.

    Like

  41. David May 30, 2017 at 1:10 PM #

    Didn’t Maurice King (itemized on the said 3.3 million invoice) deny making this claim? It is why the question asked by BU of BRA remains relevant and pertinent. Has Parris been audited?

    Like

  42. Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:17 PM #

    And you are similarly economical with the truth.

    So, you are essentially implying the police arrests a suspect based on “hearsay (i.e. gossip),” because the “evidence” they gathered that led to the arrest has NOT been “subjected to cross-examination in a court of law.”

    Then the caution should be revised from: “Anything you do say may be given in evidence” to “Anything you do say may be given as “hearsay (i.e. gossip)”

    Like

  43. David May 30, 2017 at 1:18 PM #

    @Hal

    The Forensic Audit report is a public document you know. It appears you never read it. The only reason Parris is not having to defend against criminal/civil proceedings is because the matter is under judicial management read sealed by the Court.

    Click to read the Deloitte_CLICO Report

    Like

  44. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 1:23 PM #

    Artax,

    Where did you get your legal training? Police arrest on the grounds of a prima facie case, but that is not guilt. That comes in a court of law when evidence is tested under cross-examination or if the accused pleads guilty. Anything else is hearsay or gossip.
    For a nation obsessed with the law this basic knowledge is sadly missing. Plse get the basics right.

    Like

  45. Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:23 PM #

    @ David

    Hal Austin is suggesting that the invoice you posted is “hearsay (i.e. gossip)” or mis-management and not fraud.

    And people expect me to seriously consider him as a journalist (perhaps at the National Enquirer).

    I dun wid he…… clearly a joker.

    Like

  46. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 1:28 PM #

    David,
    I have a copy of the report. In case you missed what I said before, and I realise that you have to repeat yourself many times with some people, any criminal charges should have come before the nonsense of a judicial management review.
    In fact, with a good lawyer, anyone from Clico prosecuted could claim that the judicial management report has prejudiced a fair trial. It is certainly Mr Parris’s case.
    As far as I am aware, he has not been questioned under caution; some nutcase Canadian bank barred him from having an account for no legitimate reason; and even in this forum, some mentally ill man/woman obsessed with insurance companies, smears the man almost daily.
    Where is the justice?

    Like

  47. Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:28 PM #

    Hal Austin

    Where in my contribution did I mention the police arresting a suspect is INDICATIVE of that suspect being GUILTY?

    You seem to have an allergic reaction to comprehension. I am now convinced that you are not a journalist.

    Like

  48. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 1:31 PM #

    Artax,

    David’s ‘invoice’ is not evidence. Please. Evidence is what is presented in court and tested. This is what you learn on O level law courses.

    Like

  49. David May 30, 2017 at 1:37 PM #

    @Hal

    You are being disingenuous or Trump like with your exchanges. In any criminal proceeding this fake invoice would be included in discovery. The point to restate is that in T&T and Barbados criminal cases have not been instituted. You are aware given Parris’ visibility in DLP and regional politics he would have been labelled a PEP?

    Like

  50. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 1:37 PM #

    “So, you are essentially implying the police arrests a suspect based on “hearsay (i.e. gossip),” because the “evidence” they gathered that led to the arrest has NOT been “subjected to cross-examination in a court of law.” This is what you have said.

    Until the evidence is tested it is hearsay. That is elementary which you could have learned in any comprehensive school. And to imply in previous submissions that you are legally trained (with talk about your clients) is a disgrace.
    Police arrest on suspicion; suspicion is not evidence of guilt.

    Like

  51. Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:43 PM #

    Hal Austin

    “Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:23 PM #: @ David: Hal Austin is suggesting that the invoice you posted is “hearsay (i.e. gossip)” or mis-management and not fraud.”

    Could you please indicate to me where in the above comments I stated that the invoice was EVIDENCE?

    And comprehension is TAUGHT at PRIMARY SCHOOL.

    Shiite, Hal Austin, what are you really trying to prove? That you are more educated than anyone who contributes to BU?

    Enough of you and this shiite.

    Like

  52. Artax May 30, 2017 at 1:49 PM #

    Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 1:37 PM #

    “And to imply in previous submissions that you are legally trained (with talk about your clients) is a disgrace.”

    Hal Austin

    YOU ARE A BOLD FACED LIAR!!!

    I have NEVER, EVER WRITTEN in ANY PREVIOUS SUBMISSIONS in this forum THAT I AM LEGALLY TRAINED (with talk about (my) clients).

    But, you are absolutely correct, in this case you are presenting “hearsay (i.e. gossip)” and NOT evidence.

    Like

  53. Vincent Haynes May 30, 2017 at 1:52 PM #

    Wuhlaw…wuhlaw…….what a tour de force…………..Hahaha……..and Hal sticking to his guns irrespective of all that is tossed at him……only a court case will suffice for him.

    Chuckle…..That may yet come.

    Like

  54. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 2:10 PM #

    Artax,

    Sit down and take a deep breath. Until David’s invoice – or the original – is present in court and tested under cross-examination it is hearsay. That is what the rule of law is all about. It is not rocket science.
    To be accused is not to be guilty, unless you are a 13 yr old school kid.
    I do not want to be held to it, but you have previously talked about your clients in relation to the BRA, but it may b some other govt department.

    Like

  55. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 2:15 PM #

    David,
    I am not being disingenuous. It appears as if you are like Artax, ignorant of the law of evidence. Until the invoice is presented in a court of law and tested by the defence attorneys, it is what is called in some jurisdictions hearsay. Until then, David, it is just a bit of paper.

    Like

  56. David May 30, 2017 at 2:31 PM #

    @Hal

    This is the BU forum and NOT a court of law. As ordinary folk we are simply saying that coming out of a forensic audit done by a global brand there were damming findings made public. If the same accounting firm had issued a note on a company in the UK the FT you worked for would have felt obligated to investigate why the note.

    There is enough ‘evidence’ for us regular folks to demand closer investigation of Parris, Thornhill and co and Clico related transactions.

    Like

  57. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 2:38 PM #

    David,
    Closer investigation is not guilt or evidence of guilt. Remember: innocent until proven guilty. You have made the point better than I: this is a discussion forum, not a court of law. Then we must stop pretending that a piece of paper is evidence of guilt. BU is not a court of law.
    Forget the bogus judicial management review. It was a waste of money.

    Like

  58. David May 30, 2017 at 2:45 PM #

    @Hal

    Final comment, there is enough ‘evidence’ in the public space to merit greater urgency by the authorities. Also remember that Barbados is a small place.

    Like

  59. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 2:54 PM #

    On May 29 Artax wrote about ‘clients’:
    I agree with your above comments. Over the years, I became familiar with many Inland Revenue officers because I had to communicate and interact with them when I’m acting on behalf of clients.

    Like

  60. David May 30, 2017 at 2:56 PM #

    @Hal

    Based on the evidence you have produced a better conclusion is that Artax is an accountant…lol

    Like

  61. Hal Austin May 30, 2017 at 2:58 PM #

    David,

    Last word or first, we cannot keep excusing our incompetence about being a small island. It was DeLisle Worrell’s excuse about a small open society.
    We either have the rule of law or we do not. Corrupt people in high office should be driven out, not tolerated.

    Like

  62. Artax May 30, 2017 at 3:13 PM #

    @ Hal Austin

    Perhaps it’s you that should sit down and take a deep breath and cease from attributing to me and responding to comments I have not written.

    Why do you make the silly comments of associating knowledge to age or level of learning? I’m sure that there are “13 year old school kids” who have a higher IQ than yours and are able to articulate themselves through writing on a much better level than you.

    Once again, you are being economical with the truth and “creating your own straw men to knock them down,” perhaps to suit your self aggrandizement agenda. Stop the rhetoric and answer the questions, PLEASE!!!!!

    Could you please INDICATE to me WHERE in any of my contributions I mentioned TO BE ACCUSED is TO BE GUILTY?
    Also, are you suggesting that my reference to a client and the BRA SUGGESTS that I am a LAWYER?
    Or are you of the opinion that lawyers are the ONLY individuals QUALIFIED to act on behalf of clients at the BRA?

    Only the “13 year old school kid” you referred to in your contribution would make such an erroneous assumption.

    Hal Austin you are a very indigenous individual. I’m not convinced you are a real journalist.

    Like

  63. Bush Tea May 30, 2017 at 3:20 PM #

    Hal is , and always has been, someone who will do and say any shiite in order to be noticed.
    No wonder he uses his real name…

    Why Artax would choose to continue such a back-and-forth in the face of such clear nonsense can only be explained by the fact that angela has been unusually quiet in the last few days (probably making inputs into the budget) …and therefore unavailable to take her usual licks…

    Wuhloss !!!
    🙂

    Like

  64. Bush Tea May 30, 2017 at 3:24 PM #

    @ Artax
    You probably mean “invidious” rather than “indigenous”, but that is not really the case…
    the correct word is “pathetic” ….

    Like

  65. Artax May 30, 2017 at 3:35 PM #

    @ David

    Hal Austin is essentially guilty of engaging in what he is accusing you and I of undertaking.

    The “invoice has to be presented in court and tested under cross examination, “otherwise we would be making an assumption based on hearsay.

    Yet, he used my comments as “evidence” to erroneously state I implied in previous submissions that I’m legally trained.”

    Until Hal Austin “presents my original statement in court and it is tested under cross-examination” his assumption I am a lawyer “is based on hearsay. That is what the rule of law is all about. It is not rocket science.”

    “To be accused is not to be guilty, unless you are a 13 yr old school kid.”

    Hal Austin is a joker.

    Like

  66. Artax May 30, 2017 at 3:36 PM #

    @ Bush Tea

    The evils of spell check, I meant to use the word “disingenuous.”

    Like

  67. enuff May 30, 2017 at 3:54 PM #

    Bat yuh hand Bushie!

    Like

  68. Bush Tea May 30, 2017 at 4:22 PM #

    @ enuff

    …gallows bait…!!!

    Like

  69. enuff May 30, 2017 at 4:30 PM #

    Lol…but Bushie Hal talking a lotta foolishness. The invoice is evidence in BU and the wider public and if presented in court it would become evidence of the court. The infamous Ken Lay of Enron was locked up, although there was a lack of oversight by the relevant agency.

    Like

  70. Hants May 30, 2017 at 6:32 PM #

    Scotiabank profit rises 10% to $2.01B of net income

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/scotiabank-q1-2017-1.4002369

    Like

  71. Bush Tea May 30, 2017 at 9:01 PM #

    @ Enuff
    Lol…but Bushie Hal talking a lotta foolishness.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Everybody knows that … including Hal…
    But yet, when he start pelting some hot licks in Bushie’s tail,
    …you will be first one deading wid laugh
    …and urging him on…

    …ain’t it??!!

    Like

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