harrassment

A Nettlesome Draft

Barbados Advocate Editorial brings into focus the challenge that will come if the Sexual Harassment (Prevention) Bill is proclaimed in the existing text.

mesaFor all the gender neutrality of its express provisions, a statute that provides protection against sexual harassment, such as the local draft Sexual Harassment (Prevention) Bill, now in public circulation, may still be popularly regarded as punishing primarily male conduct that is antagonistic to women mainly. There might be some justification for this, at least at the level of quid pro quo sexual harassment where relatively few women occupy positions that might be capable of effecting an advantage or disadvantage on a subordinate victim at work, depending on the latter’s reaction to the proposal for favours of a sexual nature.

Moreover, overt conduct of a sexual nature such as that covered in the Bill, including asking a person intrusive questions of a sexual nature that pertain to that person’s private life, making sexually offensive phone calls to another person and transmitting offensive written or other material to an individual is not traditionally associated with ladylike behaviour.

In this context, one may appreciate the eagerness of the local Men’s Educational Support [MESA] to be seen as solicitous of the male concern in the Bill so as to ensure some degree of balance in the final legislative document. To this end, MESA has been raising certain objections to the Bill in its present form. These have ranged from the querying the standing of a man wrongfully accused of sexual harassment to be able to seek legal recourse against his accuser to its discomfort with the specialist body appointed to hear cases where sexual harassment is alleged.

Most recently, the body has questioned whether a single instance of sexual harassment should suffice for a valid claim or whether it should be merely sanctioned with an oral or written warning before any claim could be maintained.

According to the Chairman of MESA, referring to the workplace“ It is here that acquaintances are made, friendships moulded, advances made, -accepted or rejected, courtships begun and families created. Many through first encounters, first sight, and first conversation…so we don’t think that the first incident should be sexual harassment, We are putting forward that any first incident should be noted and followed with a warning, after that warning sexual harassment proceedings can start…”

This approach is reminiscent of the legal position in liability for animals where there is both a strict liability rule where the owner of an animal is liable for whatever damage it may cause and the scienter rule whereby the owner is liable only where the animal has previously displayed a dangerous propensity, for example where a dog has already bitten an individual. The gist of the analogy is lost however, where some acts of sexual harassment are so egregiously offensive that it could not be seriously argued that the perpetrator thought that the victim might have been consenting to such an act.

For example, whatever might be said for the workplace being a place for initial romantic approaches, grabbing the genitals of an individual would scarcely be considered such and this act, whether first or later, should constitute sexual harassment on any objective criteria. If by first incidents, the Chairman is referring to polite invitations to dinner or a dance, then, even if the invitation is refused, there will be no need for a warning. This does not constitute sexual harassment in the absence of a previous warning that such invitations from the individual concerned were totally unwelcome and caused the invitee some consternation.

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104 Comments on “A Nettlesome Draft”

  1. Well Well & Consequences September 11, 2016 at 12:51 PM #

    But…we also gotta take into consideration that the system also creates and engineers social problems which leads to prostitution. One being the very expensive cost of university tuition worldwide…to graduate….to get a better job…..to make more money…….which in turn creates high class call girls of the university educated variety who later become your doctors, lawyers, legislatures…corporate executives…etc..

    The system can be the biggest pimp.

    Like

  2. Anonymouse - TheGazer September 11, 2016 at 12:51 PM #

    “They therefore basically copy what they see the white people ‘over and away’ doing….. and those albino-centrics are blinkered by the drive for a quick dollar….including selling their albino asses.”

    Agree with this and the remainder of Bushie statement. Isn’t this post about a law that was cut and pasted from elsewhere?

    Like

  3. Well Well & Consequences September 11, 2016 at 12:54 PM #

    …….which in turn creates high class call girls and call boys of the university educated variety who later become your doctors, lawyers, legislatures…corporate executives…etc..

    I failed to remember that the males are also badly affected by expensive university tuitions.

    Like

  4. peterlawrencethompson September 11, 2016 at 1:28 PM #

    I find it peculiar that in all the hand wringing over the growth in Bajan prostitution by Bush Tea, WW&C et al, there has been much mention of what has gone wrong with young girls (or boys), but nothing at all about the culpability of the grown up men (and women) who are buying sex from young people.

    I too deplore the exploitation of prostitution, but it is the buyers who are the more guilty parties. If you buy sex you should go to jail (Black or white, tall or short, male or female, Bajan or foreign).

    Like

  5. chad99999 September 11, 2016 at 1:50 PM #

    The true cost of sexual harassment legislation will become apparent when local women start destroying the careers of the men making the greatest contributions to the economy.
    Then Barbados may literally have to choose between jobs and feminism.
    A recent high-profile case in the US is instructive. A former beauty queen sued Fox News after she was fired, claiming sexual harassment. Fox News settled the case for $20 million and fired the CEO, Roger Ailes, who was personally accused of propositioning the accuser. Ailes built Fox News from scratch into the most profitable news network in the US. It’s annual net income exceeds $1B, far more than CNN or MSNBC. And Fox has superior graphics and better policy debates.
    All that is now at risk because of a former beauty queen.
    Can Barbados afford to lose a capable factory or hotel manager to a female accuser?

    Like

  6. Jeff Cumberbatch September 11, 2016 at 2:12 PM #

    “We dropped GCE for CXC so that hoards (sic) of useless educational officials in the region could get to spend millions of dollars reinventing a wheel- instead of just paying a few thousands to Cambridge to correct the shiite papers…”

    Bush Tea, but that would be an albino-centric accreditation, would it not be?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. David September 11, 2016 at 2:15 PM #

    Oh Shoot!

    Like

  8. peterlawrencethompson September 11, 2016 at 2:36 PM #

    @chad99999

    Fox News spews the most pathetic propaganda of all the major American “news” organizations. You can be certain that Gretchen Carson’s allegations were well documented or Fox would never have paid her a dime. The were so embarrassed that they paid Ailes twice as much ($40 million) to slink away with his tail between his legs. The funny part is that the culture of abuse was apparently so rampant at Fox that even throwing all that money around to shut people up has not helped, and the revelations of sexual harassment continue to pour out.

    It’s an object lesson not to let your valuable organization be run by an insecure little boy who thinks that his corner office makes him sexually attractive.

    Like

  9. peterlawrencethompson September 11, 2016 at 2:44 PM #

    @chad99999

    It’s an interesting coincidence that so many of the large American corporations that get themselves into trouble by having corporate cultures that incorporate sexual harassment, are also those corporations that exhibit the most overtly racist behaviour as well; Fox News, Chick-fil-A, Abercrombie & Fitch… Just one of those things that makes you go hmmmm.

    Like

  10. chad99999 September 11, 2016 at 3:14 PM #

    As far as I can tell, there was no rampant culture of harassment at Fox News, just a normal sexual interest by men in women.
    But if feminism decrees that men must never show sexual interest in women at the workplace, even when employees must work very long hours every week, problems can arise.
    Once more we see the extreme distortions imposed by ideology.

    Like

  11. Anonymouse - TheGazer September 11, 2016 at 3:21 PM #

    @Chad
    Depends on how you define rampant culture….
    There were no clubs or women being dragged by their hair, but

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/07/25/new_reports_of_fox_news_sexual_harassment_culture_are_unsurprising.html

    Like

  12. Bush Tea September 11, 2016 at 3:22 PM #

    @ Jeff
    Bush Tea, but that would be an albino-centric accreditation, would it not be?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Of course it is…
    Don’t be simple Jeff.
    It is an albino-centric world that wunna trying to succeed in… If we are incapable of reverting to our own destiny, then at the VERY LEAST we can seek to do THAT well….

    Why create your OWN mini-albino-centric certificates …..only to find that all the big shots at our banks, at Banks, at BL&P, Lime/Flow/ or whatever…. and at most hotels DO NOT CARRY CXCs but international albino-centric certification.
    …while our shiite ‘CXC holders’ are the maids and gardeners….. and Mother-Sally’s….

    Like

  13. Jeff Cumberbatch September 11, 2016 at 3:24 PM #

    It is a myth that “harassment” and “normal sexual interest” are the same. They are on the same level as rape and consensual sex!

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Jeff Cumberbatch September 11, 2016 at 3:26 PM #

    A feeble response, Bush Tea.

    Like

  15. chad99999 September 11, 2016 at 3:39 PM #

    There is no clear distinction between rape and consensual sex. In feminist doctrine, rape has occurred if the woman “feels” sex was non-consensual, even if this “feeling” takes a day, a week, a year, or 20 years to emerge. Women who seem to have consented at the time are allowed to subsequently change their minds and reclassify an event as rape. No doubt this is what got Bill Cosby in so much trouble.
    Similarly, in most North American jurisdictions, a single act of sexual interest can be interpreted by a court as harassment. There is no clear line between normal sexual interest and harassment.

    Like

  16. Bush Tea September 11, 2016 at 3:45 PM #

    @ PLT
    I too deplore the exploitation of prostitution, but it is the buyers who are the more guilty parties. If you buy sex you should go to jail (Black or white, tall or short, male or female, Bajan or foreign).
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Boss, so far you have not been sound on ANY of your doctrines…

    Are you calling for a world without temptations? …where we can all live happily ever afterwards – like in the albino fairy tales…?
    Sorry!! Wrong world boss.
    In this REAL world, the objective is to rise ABOVE temptations ..and to become a better person as a result.
    It is called CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
    That fairytale model where we all live happily afterwards is misguided and misleading.

    There have ALWAYS been (and always will be) dirty old men ..and devious young women. Sensible old folks protected their young girls by sending them to school away from boys like Bushie ..during their most VULNERABLE years…;
    …by teaching them VALUES about self-respect and family responsibilities;
    …and by putting the fear of god into any idiot who would even THINK of taking advantage of a family member …or even of another young victim.

    You go around BU advocating that we ‘treat everyone the same’ under some law that you seem to respect, and now blaming the predators for taking advantage of your ignorance….

    Boss … if you stop mowing the lawn, then weeds will take over.
    What do you do…? get vex that the thorns run wild…?

    What are you REALLY doing in Jamaica though…?
    ..not promoting batty-man culture Bushie hopes…
    LOL
    ha ha ha ha..

    Like

  17. Bush Tea September 11, 2016 at 3:47 PM #

    @ Jeff
    A feeble response, Bush Tea.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    …and you think that the original comment deserves better…?

    Like

  18. chad99999 September 11, 2016 at 3:50 PM #

    Anonymouse

    Slate is a propaganda mouthpiece for the Democrat Party.
    Women at Fox think they can exercise power over men and enjoy big paydays by accusing supervisors of harassment, so guess what. They are exaggerating.
    Read between the lines. Nothing unusual was going on at Fox.

    Like

  19. Bush Tea September 11, 2016 at 4:06 PM #

    Look Boss…
    A wise man will succeed in ANY WORLD that an idiot is able to create.

    When Joseph (of the coat of many colours fame) was sold as a slave, he ended up in a completely different world to the one where he was the favoured son of a well-off father.

    In short order, he was running things in this new cruel world…. so much so that the wife of the King there…wanted to have him in ways that she really shouldn’t….

    Bushie speaks of the REAL spiritual purpose of life; …of the REAL value of the Black race; ….of the uselessness of wealth and material possessions; and of the fleeting nature of this ‘life’….and the unimaginable glory of REAL life…

    At the same time, the bushman speaks of the folly of selling one’s birthrights for temporary pleasures (a pot of food); of allowing strangers to enslave your children ..out of greed; and of the critical value of LEADERSHIP if we are to make any success of this temporary, fleeting life.

    It may well to difficult to follow the complex line of argument sometimes, but one expects such confusion from ac and Alvin…. not from the great teacher himself…

    When we decided to put our eggs into the ‘education’ basket as a methodology for national development, we should have used GLOBAL benchmarks to ensure that the kind of quality we were getting, matched the best ANYWHERE.
    You do not win an Olympic medal by creating your own game and rules, but by beating the WORLD at their OWN game…and their OWN rules.

    By creating our own benchmarks, we effectively painted ourselves into a shiite corner – where we could pleasure ourselves into thinking how great we were doing……. until the fan and the smelly stuff collided, and we found that it has all been worthless….

    Can’t you see that soon you will have no one to teach…. no matter how many grade 1s and 2s CXC dish out….

    Like

  20. Jeff Cumberbatch September 11, 2016 at 4:07 PM #

    Can one incident of harassment or offensive behavior constitute sexual harassment?

    It depends. Quid pro quo cases may be considered sexual harassment when linked to
    the granting or denial of employment benefits. On the other hand, the conduct would have to be quite severe for a single incident or isolated incidents of offensive sexual conduct or remarks to rise to the level of a hostile environment. Hostile environment claims usually require proof of a pattern of offensive conduct. Nevertheless, a single and extremely severe incident of harassment may be sufficient to constitute a Title VII violation. A general rule of thumb is that the more severe the harassment is, the less likely it is that the victim will be required to show a repetitive series of incidents. This is especially true when the harassment is physical.

    This is the US position, Chad 9(5).Ours, I submit is identical.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. peterlawrencethompson September 11, 2016 at 4:17 PM #

    @ Bush Tea asked “Are you calling for a world without temptations?”

    Nope. I’m calling for a world where grown up people rise above temptation without resorting to criminal activity. If they resort to criminal activity, and buying sexual services is criminal activity, then they get prosecuted and punished. Not complicated. Dirty old men are called dirty for a reason; such dirty behaviour has no place in civilized society. You are damn right we should blame the predators.

    Like

  22. Anonymouse - TheGazer September 11, 2016 at 4:22 PM #

    @chadster,
    This story is in a very large number of papers/websites. Are they all mouthpieces?

    “Nothing unusual was going on at Fox.” I think that is the point; sexual harassment became a part of the fabric of FOX. It was the usual……

    Like

  23. peterlawrencethompson September 11, 2016 at 4:29 PM #

    @ Bush Tea

    It puzzles me that you talk about combating the abuse of young girls “by teaching them VALUES about self-respect…” but make no mention of teaching their grown up abusers the same “VALUES about self-respect and family responsibilities.” Part of the teaching methodology should include incarceration.

    You point out that “There have ALWAYS been (and always will be) dirty old men.” There have always been murderers and all sorts of other criminals too, but we investigate, arrest, prosecute and incarcerate them. What gives dirty old men special dispensation to abuse without consequences? (The answer is sexism, I know, but that was supposed to be a rhetorical question).

    Like

  24. de pedantic Dribbler September 11, 2016 at 4:39 PM #

    @PLT your 2:44 PM is a bit narrow. A broader view may instruct that persons who dismiss the merits of Black affirmative action (to combat decades of White affirmative action), will likely also uphold a ribald, free-flowing sexual work environment; disavow that glass ceilings exist for women; excuse sexual discrimination against females in the military with a retort that they should not be there on the front lines anyhow; and on and on.

    Chad is convinced that it’s Ok for a boss to tell a female employee that she should have sex with him and her and his life would be so much better and devoid of the tension and angst. After all we are all big boys and girls.

    The real power players like Ailes and Carlson play million $$ games with this sexual harassment issue and cause real serious grief for lower level managers who have to be extremely careful when disciplining female subordinates.

    Chad is right in that view when he asserts in essence that the true cost of sexual harassment legislation becomes apparent when women use it fraudulently and try to destroy careers.

    No doubt Carlson used all her charms and intelligence to repel the flirtations and innuendos from Ailes. And no doubt he really wanted to share a glass of wine in her hotel…after the fact.

    But there are rules against that and she outsmarted the old man.

    This has little to do with Bajan managers unless they are as stupid and arrogant as Ailes.

    What Chad forgets to tell the blog is that the man had been having various dalliances with his attractive female underlings over almost 40 years.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Anonymouse - TheGazer September 11, 2016 at 4:47 PM #

    Do I detect a preference for the albino-centric grades of Cambridge and London? Is there a faint suggestion that the grades of CXC are inferior to the albino-centric grades of Cambridge……
    Must be my imagination…

    Like

  26. chad99999 September 11, 2016 at 7:44 PM #

    Another common scenario in North America: A man and a woman get drunk at an office party or after a long day of work. The woman gets frisky. The man responds. They have sexual intercourse.
    Two days later, the man hears he is accused of rape. The woman “can’t remember” what happened because she admits she was drunk. According to feminist doctrine, accepted by the courts, a drunk woman is incapable of giving consent. The man is convicted as a rapist even though he was as drunk as she was.
    In feminist societies, women have the rights. Men have the responsibilities. Barbados beware.

    Like

  27. Well Well & Consequences September 11, 2016 at 7:46 PM #

    Talking about glass ceilings….in the 90s females officially shattered ALL the glass ceilings in the corpoate world in the US…..but the chauvinists were determined…so they are the ones got hit with the harassment and sexism lawsuits, which cost corporations hundreds of millions…..a great deterrent.

    From what I understand, in Barbados, men tie their harassment of females to jobs for sex….very nasty in it’s execution…then they blame the victims of course…who are defenseless, with children to feed.

    Peter…because of the rampant sexism in Barbados…which is so plain to see, old dirty men, young dirty men and middle aged dirty men buying sex from women, young girls and children….has become the accepted norm….

    …….I much preferred my daughters and sons grew up in the City without Pity, than the pit of nastiness that surrounds young boys and girls in Barbados…..one dude was telling me back in 2008 about a politician who had twin 12 year old girls parading around with and they were always identically dressed and how much he boasted, to make matters worse he had mothers selling their daughters to him….women with no moral code…..in the St. George area…just before the government changed in 2008…, everyone knows who he is, no need to call names…..

    I did give him a very nasty look for putting his gaze on my then 12 year old daughter when we visited the island……children or not safe in Barbados….I cant for the life of me understand why people who claim to be sensible would even consider a population explosion of births to create more innocent victims.

    So you see Peter….some of those in parliament should also be arrested….the nastiness and crimes starts with the leaders.

    Like

  28. Bush Tea September 11, 2016 at 8:37 PM #

    @ PLT
    It puzzles me that you talk about combating the abuse of young girls “by teaching them VALUES about self-respect…” but make no mention of teaching their grown up abusers the same “VALUES about self-respect and family responsibilities.” Part of the teaching methodology should include incarceration.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    No surprise there…
    Everything about Bushie puzzles you….and with good reason.

    While Bushie is talking about a process designed for grooming ‘diamonds’ in a high pressure cauldron of character-testing temptations, you are talking shiite about punishing the temptations…. and about their ‘incarceration’…..
    Do you not understand that these ‘demons’ are NEEDED in the process of creating saints…?
    A ‘saint’ is not someone who managed to avoid temptations, but one who met them …and overcame…

    Steupsss…
    Do you know that your gravatar looks somewhat like Carl Moore…..?
    Did you know Ossie?

    Like

  29. Bush Tea September 11, 2016 at 8:56 PM #

    Chad9999
    In feminist societies, women have the rights. Men have the responsibilities. Barbados beware.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Barbados beware? …surely you jest!!
    Boss, Barbados probably passed that stage long ago…

    Look, we have MOTHERS who routinely discontinue court cases against men, alleged to have raped their underaged daughters, after agreed sums of money change hands. Courts then dismiss charges for ‘lack of prosecution’…
    Try to extrapolate the number of these matters that are settled BEFORE court and police are involved… Some say it is an INDUSTRY…but don’t expect to see an exposé in the Nation…

    What we have is the situation where the weeds are growing out of control and there are VERY few diamonds left to be refined…leaving a veritable forest of demons…. and BBE has a tried and true methodology for dealing with such situations…. It is beyond whackers.

    Like

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