Hear Our Prayer O Lord

Queen Elizabeth stoutly defends the Church and religion

Why does the act of praying become top of mind whenever there is a desire to be comforted? This observation is all the more real when those who invoke and participate in prayer are non believers. Those who watched The Grammys (2012) witnessed host LL Cool J kicking off proceedings with a prayer triggered by the passing of Whitney Houston.  It didn’t matter that we live in a world comprised of believers, atheists, agnostics and God knows who else. The audience appeared to accede to LL Cool J’s request without rebellion.

It should be of interest to many that a debate is currently raging in Great Britain, sparked by a court decision to ban the tradition of saying prayers at council meetings. There is a rising fear among ‘believers’ that centuries old tradition of praying to kick off  public meetings  is under threat by the ruling. To add to the concern for Christians everywhere there was a recent court ruling in the US jurisdiction where ‘a Judge has ruled that churches must stop meeting in school buildings because a worship service is an act of organised religion that consecrates the place in which it is performed, making it a church’. The fight between the secular and non-secular is beginning to take shape. A former Archbishop of Canterbury was prompted to warn that  ‘our faith is under siege’.

The debate in the UK is likely to be stoked further with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II entering the fray. Queen Elizabeth took the most unusual step of, in effect, condemning the court decision against having prayers as a part of the agendas of public institutions. Also, Baroness Warsi (a Muslim) in a speech at the Vatican also condemned the high court ruling. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth left no one in any doubt as to her feelings on the matter in an address delivered at Lambeth Palace at the first official Diamond Jubilee function at a luncheon for the heads of the 7 largest faiths in the UK. The fact that Queen Elizabeth rarely expresses herself in such firm terms will not be taken lightly in a society which represents the bastion of Christianity. How many bets that the decision in this matter is likely to be overturned?

We are living in interesting times!

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74 Comments on “Hear Our Prayer O Lord”

  1. Amused February 17, 2012 at 4:08 AM #

    So it damned well should be overturned. Outrageous. There is nothing that dictates those who prefer not to pray from not praying. They need only remain in silence through respect for those of us who do pray. As our whole society, whether it be Barbados, USA, UK, Canada – wherever, is based upon the supreme authority of God (by whatever name He is known) this decision by the UK judge is patent nonsense. Mind you, it is a relief to see that not only Barbados has jackasses for judges.

    Like

  2. TECHNICIAN February 17, 2012 at 9:58 AM #

    ….’ They need only remain in silence through respect for those of us who do pray…’

    Why can’t it be the other way around?

    Why can’t they pray in silence out of respect for those who don’t pray?

    Oooooh, I forgot…..those who pray and are considered xtians are better than anyone else on Earth.
    Good decision…stop it all together, If you truly pray, then it should not be hard to do it in silence.

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  3. Zoe February 17, 2012 at 10:02 AM #

    God has placed within mankind, a conscience, an awareness, whether he/she is an Atheists/Agnostic or otherwise, that HE is real.

    Many Atheists in time of trouble, call OUT instintively, on the God, they have wilfully chosen to deny, “Oh God, help me…”

    Yes, there is a wicked, thrust in England, the US, et al countries, to remove prayer from schools, traditional functions, and the very Judiciary IS at the forefront of this anti-God agenda.

    Whenever, the foundation of the historic Judeo/Christian principles are removed from our schools, courts, etc, the nation starts to crumble, in every area of its existence, AND, this IS* evident throughout the UK and the US, et al nations as well.

    “UNLESS the LORD builds the house ( Nation, family, etc) They labour in VAIN, who build it; UNLESS the LORD guards the city, (parish, home, etc) The watchman stays awake in VAIN.” (Psa. 127: 1) Emphasis added.

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  4. David February 17, 2012 at 10:03 AM #

    @Techie

    Can we give credence to tradition in this instance?

    Like

  5. Pachamama February 17, 2012 at 10:31 AM #

    Why? Why should people who are not part of this acili be subjected to it. Why should we remain ‘silent’ while ‘christians’ or other people of ‘faith’ engage in activities that are not connected to anything that is real, provable, empirical? Why should we respect a hocus pocus that criminalized African peoples? Enslaved us for 400 years under the ambit of a white god somewhere in the sky. A god whose fictitious book was instrumental in these acts. A book than has been shown to be, from the beginning to the end, full of outright lies, malicious interpretation of actual historical events and downright fraudulent. A book written by the hand of normal human beings that purports to be inspired by somebody in the sky somewhere. On all points this criminal imposition has been found wanting. On the contrary, the time is soon approaching when the propagation of this drivel will be regarded as the crime against humanity that it is. But there is hope, should christians be able to use the interregnum to explain all the crimes that they committed and are currently engaged in, there may be some consideration of forgiveness from the rest of us.

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  6. Zoe February 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM #

    “Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn REFUSE to accept them.”
    (Martin Luther King)

    “Prayer in schools prior to 1962 was utilized in school districts all over the U.S. in many varieties. Some teachers used extemporaneous prayers, simply expressing their thoughts and desires; others implemented structured prayers, such as the Lord’s Prayer or the 23rd Psalm, or others approved by local school boards. New York students prayed each day:”

    “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee and beg Thy blessing over us, our parents, our teachers, and our nation.”

    “It was this simple prayer which came under fire and went to the Supreme Court for the landmark decision.”

    “Much has been said both for and against prayer in schools. There is little doubt that neither the Lord Jesus Himself nor the founding fathers would have been in favour of ‘forced’ or ‘state sponsored’ prayer. The option to pray or not to pray is a matter of individual choice and has to come from the heart. It is a matter of some doubt whether the actual doing away of prayer in schools has directly contributed to the escalation of teen-age pregnancies and suicides and the downward spiral of the SAT scores. The Pharisees thought they would be heard for their ‘much speaking’, and similarly it is questionable as to how much value there is in a ‘canned’ prayer even if recited by thousands of young people across the country. (Consider that most schools in India start their day with a very generic prayer, similar to the one that sparked the U.S. Supreme court’s decision on the Engels v. Vitale case in 1962).”

    “What Really Caused The Downward Spiral?
    In the words of Greg Koukl..”

    “However some indisputable statistics tell us that the downward slide in behavior started about the time of the court decision and was very evidently related. As we see it, the court ruling to remove prayer from the school system was nothing more than the ‘official’ stamp on the removal of God from a very crucial part of our society. It was simply one large step among many small ones, which has contributed to the moral & spiritual disintegration of the US. It was a flying leap across the narrow chasm separating a God fearing moral country and the chaotic ‘everything goes’ situation we find ourselves in today. The message the Supreme Court sent to the country that fateful day was that it was okay to ‘remove’ God from His rightful place. They were simply another, very effective, tool in Satan’s hand”

    “Remove the fear of God from the human heart, whitewash the reality that, sooner or later, all of us will answer to a supremely moral Being, eliminate the concept that He demands adherence to His laws and it is but a short step to the deterioration of the cornerstone of society… The Family. With the fear of God done away with there is no longer any reason to treat the marriage vows as sacred, to bring up God-fearing children. From there it is an even shorter step to all the other sinister and evil circumstances we find ourselves in today…. Teen pregnancies, violent crime, suicide, drugs and alcohol abuse are the very logical fruits of a society that has forgotten that He is a God of wrath.”

    “The elimination of the fear of God, symbolized by the Supreme courts actions in the matter of school prayer, led to a dramatic increase in crime, venereal disease, premarital sex, illiteracy, suicide, drug use, public corruption, and other social ills. This documented by Specialty Research Associates, under the direction of David Barton, that has released a report entitled America: To Pray or Not to Pray. Below are just a few of the examples featured in Barton’s report.”

    A. Young People

    1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years.

    2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.

    3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next 12 years.

    B. The Family

    1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.

    2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%

    3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.

    4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.

    C. Education

    1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.

    2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000.

    a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.

    b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/ instruction was removed from the schools.

    c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.

    3. Of the nation’s top academic scholars, three times as many come from private religious schools, which operate on one-third the funds as do the public schools.

    D. The Nation

    1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.

    3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.

    2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.

    Putting Prayer Back In Schools?

    “Putting prayer back into schools may do more harm than good… In the words of Greg Koukl”

    “…. It may be that the thing that has caused our decline was not pulling prayer out of schools, but there is a third thing that caused both the decline and the pulling of prayer out of schools. The reason that’s important is that if we try to fix the problem by putting prayer back into schools, and taking it out wasn’t the thing that caused the problem, then we are kind of fixing the wrong part of a machine that’s not working. But in the process of fixing we could do more damage, and this is a big concern that I have. You have to be careful of making decisions based on what appears to be a causal relationship if there isn’t in fact a causal relationship. …”

    “now that it’s gone you will not be able to get back in the schools what was lost because if we reintroduce prayer in schools in any sense it’s going to be kind of a benign civil religious prayer that satisfies everyone and offends no one… I think it may end up doing more harm than good by teaching people that as long as you have a kind of a benign, broad-brushed reference to some kind of deity then you are doing okay, and the details don’t really matter that much. That would be a terrible message to send to young people.” [1]

    End Notes

    [1] Gregory Koukl. School Prayer: The Wrong Hill to Die On.
    http://www.str.org/site/News2?id=5556&page=NewsArticle

    *****************

    Is School Prayer Actually Prohibited?
    It is our understanding that this is not the case.

    “The Engel v. Vitale decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in 1962 prohibited only state-mandated prayer in public schools classrooms. As Richard Riley, the former Secretary of Education, stated: “…religious rights of students and their right to freedom of conscience do not stop at the schoolhouse door.” He was apparently quoting another landmark Supreme Court decision: Tinker v. Des Moines where the court ruled that students do not “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.”

    (Richard Riley, Letter to school principals dated 1999-DEC-17, at: http://www.ed.gov/inits/religionandschools/secletter.html)

    Apparently students in U.S. public schools are free to:

    Take Bibles or other religious texts with them on the school bus.

    Pray alone or in groups at the flagpole or elsewhere on school grounds.

    Pray in classrooms outside of regular teaching hours.

    Say grace and/or pray in a school cafeteria.

    Form a Bible study club or any other religious club, if even one student-led group is already allowed in the school. This is a guaranteed right under the federal Equal Access Act of 1984.

    Students can wear T-shirts with religious text. They can wear religious jewellery (buttons, symbols, crosses, stars of David, pentacles, etc).

    Students can hand out religious materials.

    Although these rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, they are not necessarily granted by school officials automatically. Fortunately, a variety of legal organizations, such as the Rutherford Foundation (http://www.rutherford.org/) can intervene on behalf of students and explain the law to the school administration. These matters are usually cleared up very quickly, because of the wealth of case law supporting student rights. The Rutherford Foundation has stated: “Many cases can be solved with a strong and professional letter from an attorney, a legal memorandum from our office, or a phone call from a staff member.” B.A. Robinson (religioustolerance.org)

    *****************

    Inplainsite.org Comment: I have been in this country for twelve years and have never ceased to be shocked and amazed at the number of Americans who still fall for the stale and completely asinine ‘Separation Of Church And State’ argument. It is even worse to come across so many that actually believe this phrase is part of the constitution. It Isn’t! And, if you don’t believe me, I suggest you get your self one of those little Pocket Constitution Booklets. Try this web site… https://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-pocket-constitution/. You might be surprised.

    So, if it isn’t in the constitution, where did the phrase ‘Separation Of Church And State’ originate?

    It was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President. The concern of the Danbury Baptists was that the government might someday attempt to regulate religious expression. But as it turned out, Thomas Jefferson had no intention of allowing the government to limit, restrict, regulate, or interfere with public religious practices. He believed, along with the other Founders, that the First Amendment had been enacted only to prevent the federal establishment of a national denomination-a fact he made clear in a letter to fellow-signer of the Declaration of Independence Benjamin Rush. In fact what is truly amazing is that Jefferson’s explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the manner in which courts apply it today. “Separation of church and state” currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant. [For Details See Separation of Church and State]

    Besides which it is ludicrous that prayer has been taken out of schools when there are so many instances where religion and the existence of God are at least given a token tip of the hat by the government. For example:

    Each day’s session of the Supreme Court starts with the invocation: “God save the United States and this Honorable Court.”

    The National Anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner” contains the words “Praise the Pow’r that hath made and preserved us a nation.”

    The National Motto is “In God we Trust.” [See Article]

    The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag contains the words “one Nation under God, indivisible,

    Like

  7. millertheanunnaki February 17, 2012 at 11:07 AM #

    @ Amused | February 17, 2012 at 4:08 AM |
    “As our whole society, whether it be Barbados, USA, UK, Canada – wherever, is based upon the supreme authority of God (by whatever name He is known) this decision by the UK judge is patent nonsense.”

    In case you are not aware, the UK, especially England, is a multi-racial and multi-cultural state; not a theocratic state like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
    Therefore, people from varying religious persuasion and cultural backgrounds would be involved in and attend public official functions.

    The question you need to ask yourself is this: To which god would be the one receiving the praise and glory and listening to our prayers? Would it be done through Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Haile Selassie I, the Hindu gallery of gods and goddesses or any of the range of “holy” and self proclaimed last prophets? Which prayer or religious book would be used as reference to this deity or deities?
    What about native Americans and other indigenous people who have their own concept of God?

    The best thing to do is to leave religion out of the affairs of government and let the religious houses fulfill that aspect of human life. The judge is ruling as it should be done without fear or favour to any particular interest group but only in the interest of fairness and equity as expressed in the current cultural realities of modern Britain. The Court is NOT allowed to rule based on Race so why rule based on Religion.

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  8. robert ross February 17, 2012 at 11:30 AM #

    There is so much that is good in these blogs and so much one could address. Let me just say this:-
    My belief is that all of us have a more or less conscious sense of religiousness however that actually expresses itself, and that, religiousness, has nothing inevitably to do with organised religion which down the arches of the years has been responsible for so much mayhem and which still comes across as fanciful opiates and thorougoing Phariseeism. Anyone interested in this idea might listen to a programme by an Anglican priest on Faith FM on Tuesday at 9.0pm and Thursday at 5.0pm next week.

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  9. Zoe February 17, 2012 at 11:57 AM #

    The historic, empirical, logical, verasity of God’s Word, the Bible, stands literally unparalelled with ANY other ancient ‘religious’ document, BAR NONE!

    Every ancient, PAGANISTIC civilization, that worshipped FALSE, demonic dieties, ALL came to utter ruination, exactly as as was prophecied by Almighty God’s Word, the Bible. Because HE* IS* the Only, One, True and living God, of Historic, Divine Revelation as contained in His Word.

    And, over the last 2000 years, beginning with the embryonic birth of His True Church, in the Apostolic era, NOT, Roman Catholicism, the Whore of Revelation, and all of the other FALSE, demonic heretical groups, and cults, which have NO part in His True, Redeemed ‘Church’ BUT, those who belong to His ‘Ecclesia’ the called out ones, have confirmed repeatedly, over and over again, by, LOGICAL CONSISTENCY, EMPIRICAL ADEQUACY, and EXPERIENTIAL RELEVANCY, the FACT, of His Word, beginning in the Book of Genesis, and throughout history, right up until TODAY, exactly what HE said, would transpire, culmanating IN* the present world wide chaos, politically, socially, economically, and otherwise, CONFIRMING without fear of contradiction, that HE* Almighty God, and His Son, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, ARE the Only Saviour of mankind, for there NONE other!

    All else, contrary to His Omnipotent Word, are utter Demonic falsity, and HOGWASH from the pit of Hell!

    Like

  10. de hood February 17, 2012 at 3:40 PM #

    I always wonder why it is that when ever I read something posted by ZOE I usually visualise him standing at a podium with his hands flailing in the air, his hair all disarrayed and sticking out from his head, his eyes all red and watery and last but not least, tons of spittle flying from his mouth. In short, the classic picture of a totally insane (fanatic) individual. :)

    Like

  11. chocolate city hussle February 17, 2012 at 4:33 PM #

    @TECHNICIAN | February 17, 2012 at 9:58 AM |

    i pity blinded people such as u. if u find yourself at death’s door tonight, you will be desperately looking around for someone to pray for you, begging those standing watching you, not to allow you to die. i truly pity you. should you die as you are, whether you accept it or not, you will face eternity WITHOUT God. sure respond to me with your delusional crap but remember you do have a conscious and it DOES tell you that God exist. you have the choice, we all do

    Like

  12. The Scout February 17, 2012 at 4:41 PM #

    i would stict to my values, they have proven GOOd for me. Anyone who don’t like my beliefs , soory you have a problem, not me. As far as I’m concerned, the words and predictions in the Bible are coming to pass, Mankind would become lovers of each other, we would see the rejection of the word of God i.e. some become God haters. We see where traditional organisations are denying the use of the bible and prayers,I’m seeing quite recently persons experiencing sudden deaths, you converse with them, while in apparent good health, only to hear within the next hour that person is dead. these are all predictions within the bible, therefore, I’m not surprised at the happenings, just that i must strengthen myself to accept and place more confidence in my TRUE GOD. The day will come when the TRUE BELIEVER in God would have to stand up and pronounce the gospel of Christ and fear not what will happen to them.

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  13. The Scout February 17, 2012 at 4:48 PM #

    chocolate city hassle
    Quite recently I was at the bedside of one of these people (a man) who didn’t believe in God; I think until then the last time he went to church was at his baptism. If you wanted to hear this man curse really bad, tell him about going to church. I witness at his death bedside, him calling for someone to come and pray for him before he passed. The plea was so ernest, that made me more convinced that there is a life after this and the preparation for how we spend that future life depends on how we live this one.

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  14. islandgal246 February 17, 2012 at 5:19 PM #

    Will Christians be offended if I pray openly to my Non Christian God at meal times, at the start of any occasion when someone requests a prayer?

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  15. David February 17, 2012 at 5:27 PM #

    @islandgal

    Where is the logic in your question?

    Do non believers believe?

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  16. islandgal246 February 17, 2012 at 7:09 PM #

    David,

    I have never said that I don’t believe in a creator, I do not believe in the Christian concept of the Godman called Jesus Christ. Like I have said before I do not follow the Christian faith and I do not believe in the Bible.

    Like

  17. Zoe February 17, 2012 at 11:37 PM #

    In light of the following FACTS re the persecution of Christians, throughout the non-Christian, Islamic et al nations of the world, I challenge the ‘Scoffers’ and ‘Mockers’ of Christians, to cite ONE, democratic, Western nation, where Muslims, Hindu’s Buddists, et al religious people live peacefully, are IN any way treated or persecuted by these Christian oriented countries like Christians ARE in these other countries as cited below?

    The Final Hour
    Chronicling World Events As Humanity Enters History’s Darkest Hour

    Friday, February 6, 2009Christianity – The Most Persecuted Religion In The Entire World

    “Our previous article entitled “It Has Become Fashionable To Mock Christians” examined the rising tide of Christian persecution in western countries such as the U.S., Canada and the United Kingdom. If you have not read that article yet, please do so. Hatred towards Christianity is rising and it is rising fast.”

    “But most people are not aware that already Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the entire world. It is illegal or severely restricted in 51 different countries. Fundamentalist Muslim nations, fanatical Hindu countries and hardline Communist regimes are not shy about their hatred for Christianity.”

    “Christians in the United States do not realize how easy they have had it. In many areas of the world following Christ means paying a high price – and often the price a believer must pay is with their life.”

    “For example, Iran’s parliament has passed a new law which makes it illegal for a Muslim to become a Christian, and that any Muslim that does become a Christian must be executed.”

    “In many areas of India, Christians who try to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ are regularly attacked by Hindu extremists.”

    “The following is a recent example of this persecution that was emailed to us by The Voice Of The Martyrs:”

    —–

    “On April 25, Pastor Mohan Babu and two other believers were severely beaten by 35 Hindu extremists for holding a Vacation Bible School (VBS) near Bangalore City, in Karnataka State. According to The Voice of the Martyrs contacts in India, the three-day VBS was organized by Ragigudda Baptist Church. VOM sources said, “Around 60 children from different backgrounds were attending the VBS. As they were worshiping, about 35 people belonging to a Hindu extremist group forcefully entered the hut chanting slogans and demolished the hut. The extremists mercilessly beat Mohan, Samuel and Krishna, alleging forceful conversion. The perpetrators chased the children without any courtesy and tore the Bibles. Mohan was severely injured on his lips and was profusely bleeding. The believers are living in fear and did not lodge complaint with the police.” Pray for healing for all those injured in this attack. Pray they forgive their attackers and for the children who were attending VBS to continue growing in their faith despite the attack.”

    —–

    “Unfortunately, the persecution of Christians in India has gotten worse as 4 more churches in eastern India have been burnt and thousands of people have been driven from their homes.”

    “But it is not just in a few areas where Christians are persecuted. It is truly a worldwide phenomenon…..”

    * It has been estimated that more Christians were martyred in the 20th Century than in the previous 1,900 years combined.

    * There were more than 26 million documented cases of martyrdom in the 20th century alone.

    * More than 200 million Christians in over 60 nations face persecution each day, and it is estimated that over half of these are children.

    * It is estimated that between 150,000 and 165,000 Christians are martyred each year.

    The following is a partial list of countries where Christians are currently being persecuted:

    China
    Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

    “Widespread persecution of church leaders and members, especially those in unregistered (underground) churches, which may represent as many as 100 million believers.”

    Indonesia
    Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

    “Militant Muslims have waged periodic Jihad (‘Holy War’) against Christian communities in the Molucca Islands and Sulawesi. Over 600 churches have been destroyed since 1996.”

    Nigeria
    Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

    “The imposition of Islamic Sharia law in more than 10 states has caused thousands of Christians to flee, and has exacerbated differences between the predominantly Christian south and the Islamic north.”

    North Korea
    Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

    “Over 100,000 people, including many Christians, are believed to be imprisoned in North Korea’s barbaric death camps. The brutal dictatorship of Kim Jong Il suppresses all religious activities, and imposes a personality cult based around the ‘Great Leader’.”

    Pakistan
    Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

    “Pakistan’s poorly-drafted 295c blasphemy laws, which carry the death penalty for ‘blaspheming Mohammed’, have been misused against Christians and other minorities. Militant Muslims are increasingly attacking churches and Christian organizations.”

    Sudan
    Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

    “Famine and the long-running civil war between the Muslim North and Christian/animist South have led to over two million deaths in the last two decades. Thousands of Southern Sudanese have been literally enslaved after being seized in government raids.”

    Cuba
    Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

    “The church was initially persecuted by the Communist regime of Fidel Castro, when church leaders were sent to labour camps. Christians now enjoy greater freedom, although house churches are still subject to repression.”

    Colombia
    Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

    “Pastors have been targeted by guerrilla movements such as FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia), with 400 churches being forced to close in areas under the control of armed groups. Christians have also been killed for speaking out against violence and the widespread drug trade.”

    Morocco
    Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

    “Anyone converting to Christianity can face charges of treachery and illegal contact with foreign missions. A small Moroccan church is emerging, estimated to number some 500 indigenous believers in 2000.”

    Mauritania
    Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

    “Islam is the state religion, and conversion from Islam is strictly forbidden. The Catholic Church is the only recognised religious group outside of Islam. Sharia law is intermittently applied.”

    Algeria
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “In recent years Christians have been attacked by the Islamic Salvation Front, and Islamic fundamentalists are pushing for the implementation of Sharia law.”

    Libya
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Sunni Islam is the state religion, but secular influences are strong. There are very few Libyan Christian believers. There is a limit of one church per denomination per city.”

    Egypt
    Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

    “The constitution gives preference to Muslims, and Christians are often treated as second-class citizens, denied political representation and discriminated against in employment. The Egyptian Coptic Church is by far the largest body of Christians in the Middle East.”

    Somalia
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “The small Somali church has been driven underground, and exists mainly in the south. A number of believers have been martyred, others have been publicly named as targets for execution.”

    Turkey
    Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

    “The Christian Population has declined from 22 per cent in 1900 to 0.32 per cent today. There is increasing openness by the government to recognise Turkey as a multi-cultural, multi-religious country. Periodic acts of violence against non-Muslim institutions.”

    Syria
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Christian minorities are tolerated and have freedom to worship and witness within their own community, but all activities that could threaten the government or communal harmony are carefully watched.”

    Kuwait
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Christians are free to live and work in Kuwait, but must worship in a recognized location. Evangelism to Kuwaitis is forbidden.”

    Saudi Arabia
    Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

    “Saudi Arabia is the guardian of Islam’s two holiest sites, Mecca and Medina. Any citizen who converts from Islam to another religion faces the death penalty. Islamic Sharia law is the main source of legislation.”

    Qatar
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Criticism of the ruling family monarchy or Islam is a crime. However expatriate believers are allowed to practice their faith.”

    Yemen
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “It is illegal for Muslims to convert to Christianity, and those Yemenis who do face many social pressures. Most Christians in the country are expatriates, many being Ethiopian refugees.”

    Oman
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Churches and church activities for expatriates are allowed, but evangelism of Muslims is forbidden. There is a handful of indigenous believers.”

    United Arab Emirates (UAE)
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Islam is the state religion. Expatriate Christians, representing many different language groups, have freedom to worship and witness to their faith.”

    Iran
    Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

    “Shi’a Islam is the state religion. Conversion from Islam to another faith is a capital crime. There is a ban on the printing of all Christian literature, and constant surveillance of churches and those who attend them.”

    Iraq
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “After the fall of Saddam Hussein, members of underground churches are struggling to practice their faith. The Christian community is largely Assyrian, with some Armenians. About one-third of all Christians fled Iraq in the 1990s.”

    Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS)
    Religious Freedom Rating: 4-7 (7 is worst)

    “The CIS comprises Russia and 11 other republics that were formerly part of the Soviet Union, including Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Christians face harassment and repression from both old-guard Communists, and Islamic militants.”

    Afghanistan
    Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

    “Public persecution of Christians has once again emerged, and Christians still face constant harassment from militant Muslims.”

    Nepal
    Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

    “Militant Hindus are targeting Christians with hostile propaganda and violence; while Maoist guerrillas, who control one-fifth of the country, have also attacked Christians.”

    India
    Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

    “States such as Orissa and Gujarat have been racked by violence as radical Hindus have attacked Christian communities. Six Indian states have passed anti-conversion laws that impose prison terms and fines against anyone using force, fraud or allurement to convert another.”

    Bangladesh
    Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

    “Islam is the state religion, and radical Muslims are pushing for the introduction of full Islamic Sharia law. Hindus, Christians and Buddhists have all experienced religious discrimination and attacks by militant Muslims.”

    Sri Lanka
    Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

    “Buddhism is given the ‘foremost place’ in the Constitution. Militant Buddhists have increasingly instigated mob violence against evangelical Christians in rural areas. 65 churches were attacked in 2003.”

    Bhutan
    Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

    “All public worship and evangelism by non-Buddhists is illegal. The king wields absolute power, and there are no legal guarantees on freedom of religion.”

    Burma (Myanmar)
    Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

    “The State Peace and Development Council attempts to control every religious activity. All gatherings of five or more people are illegal. Ethnic minorities, such as the Karen, have been targets of repression.”

    Malaysia
    Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

    “Although the constitution guarantees religious freedom, fundamentalist Muslims do everything in their power politically to inhibit Christian evangelism. Ethnic Malays are not allowed to have a Christian place of worship.”

    Laos
    Religious Freedom Rating: n/a (7 is worst)

    “Communist leaders in some districts have implemented a program called ‘New Mechanism’ in which anyone who does not convert to Buddhism or animism is forcibly removed from their district. Christian villagers have been forced to sign documents renouncing their faith.”

    Eritrea
    Religious Freedom Rating: n/a (7 is worst)

    “Evangelical Christians have come under increasing pressure. Only four religious groups are allowed to hold public meetings: Muslims, Catholics, Orthodox and Lutheran. Evangelical Christians have been imprisoned.”

    Maldives
    Religious Freedom Rating: n/a (7 is worst)

    “This popular holiday destination in the Indian Ocean hides a repressive regime. Free speech is not respected for the press or non-Muslim religions. In 1998 all known Maldivian Christians were arrested.”

    Tibet
    Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

    “Christians find themselves caught between pressure from both Buddhism and Chinese communism. In 1999 the Chinese Communist Party in Lhasa decreed that atheism is necessary to promote economic development in the region, and to assist the struggle against the Dalai Lama (who fled in 1959).”

    “Most Western Christians truly have NO IDEA what life has been like for some Christians in other areas of the world.”

    The following extraordinary story of Christian persecution is from The Voice Of The Martyrs:

    —–

    “Pastor Florescu couldn’t bear to watch his son being beaten by the Communist officers. He had already been beaten himself, and he had not slept for two weeks for fear of being attacked by the starving rats the Communists had forced into his prison cell. The Romanian police wanted Florescu to give up other members of his underground church so that they, too, could be captured.”

    “Seeing that the beatings and torture weren’t working, the Communists brought in Florescu’s son Alexander, only fourteen years old, and began to beat the boy. While Florescu watched, they hammered his son’s body unmercifully, telling the pastor that they would beat his son to death unless he told them the locations of other believers.”

    “Finally, half mad, Florescu screamed for them to stop.”

    “Alexander, I must say what they want!” he called out to his son. “I can’t bear your beatings anymore.”

    “His body bruised, blood running from his nose and mouth, Alexander looked his father in the eye. “Father, don’t do me the injustice of having a traitor as a parent. Stand strong! If they kill me, I will die with the word Jesus on my lips.”

    “The boy’s courage enraged the Communist guards, and they beat him to death as his father watched. Not only did he hold on to his faith, he helped his father do the same.”

    —–

    “But perhaps you don’t think it could happen in the United States?”

    “Just check out this stunning footage of a mob assaulting a Christian woman and stomping on a cross:”

    “Sometimes the persecution is more subtle. A federal judge has ruled that the University of California can deny course credit to applicants from Christian high schools whose textbooks teach that God created the world. Is that not intense pressure on Christian high schools in California to compromise on their beliefs?”

    So what should we make of this?

    Should we be surprised at this persecution?

    The truth is that we should expect persecution.

    In John 15:18, Jesus told us that those who believe in Him would be hated…..

    “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.”

    “The reality is that we are in the world but we are not of the world.”

    “Our home is with the Lord, and while we are here we are in a battle to rescue as many lost souls as we can.”

    Like

  18. David February 18, 2012 at 12:54 AM #

    @islandgal

    David,

    I have never said that I don’t believe in a creator, I do not believe in the Christian concept of the Godman called Jesus Christ. Like I have said before I do not follow the Christian faith and I do not believe in the Bible.

    Can you expand? Are you saying you believe in a creator but do not believe in the medium of prayer?

    Like

  19. old onion bags February 18, 2012 at 7:37 AM #

    Onions can’t believe Zoe would post something so loooooooonnnnnnnnnnng in here..Fa real David…you can’t speak to Zoe ?
    Is most inconsiderate cuz Zoe know nobody could read dat…

    Like

  20. Amused February 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM #

    I think the whole concept of prayers as a part of our national life is well established. I agree that those who do not choose to participate ought to have the courtesy simply to be silent and allow those who do choose to participate in this age-old tradition to do their own thing. I too am amazed by the number of non-believers who, faced with evidence of their mortality, immediately summon a priest. Maybe they are not that sure that God doesn’t exist and are hedging their bets, just in case. Which is hypocritical. But I am sure that God (at least the one I believe in) being a God of Love, will not abandon them or penalise them.

    What I find confusing is that in this case a court has ruled that prayers as part of an agenda for council meetings is illegal and that, in England. I can readily understand Her Majesty’s dismay, quite apart from the fact that she is head of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith. The courts take their authority directly from her, as do all public bodies (simplistically, the Royal Mail). In her Diamond Jubilee year, the court ruling is even more silly, as the UK National Anthem will likely be performed many times as a part of the “agendas” of public functions. This is an anthem in which, in its shortened version, God is named three (03) times. It starts, “God save our gracious Queen”.

    On the subject of immigrant religions in the UK, I would observe that the practitioners of those asked to be in the UK and swore to uphold its laws and customs (of which God is a part). If they find this to be an insufferable hardship, maybe they ought to leave, as it seems to me they are foresworn in their oaths taken when they received citizenship. I have checked this out and can confirm that a part of the citizenship ceremony for UK citizenship involves the singing of God save the Queen.

    As far as Barbados is concerned, we are a very religious society in which most citizens and Christians of one denomination or another. I agree with the Australian PM’s invitation to immigrants into Australia who have to problem with our Bajan laws and customs. Here is the report:

    “Prime Minister Julia Gillard- Australia

    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

    Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques. Quote:

    ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.
    I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘

    ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’

    ‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!’

    ‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’

    ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

    ‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’

    ‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’”

    Like

  21. millertheanunnaki February 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM #

    @ Amused | February 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM |
    “The courts take their authority directly from her, as do all public bodies (simplistically, the Royal Mail).”

    If I were you I would not dabble in matters you know very little about. Your writing amusingly indicates very limited knowledge of modern Britain. The Monarchy has NO power as far the Judiciary and Executive are concerned.
    The monarchy is just a “titular” institution primarily existing for traditional and ceremonial purposes and to be a major tourist attraction.
    As far as morality is concerned the royal family are in no position to rule or dictate. Britain is NOT Barbados living in a 19th Century bubble or cocoon of moral hypocrisy and double standards.
    King Henry V111 had many wives and some of them were executed at his request. Today, he would be considered a serial killer. King James was known to prefer the company of men but yet Bajans still cling to the book commissioned by him to rule on moral issues and sexual orientation. Incidentally this same book was described by the current head of the Monarchy as ‘an excellent piece of English prose’ and not as Bajans so stupidly describe it as the “Word of God”.

    “ Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.”

    For you to repeat this kind of jingoistic crap shows how little you know about the settlement of Australasia over the last 200 years or so. Australia was settled primarily by ex-convicts and criminals from the British Isles. These settlers along with the capitalist businessmen stole by force of arms the lands belonging to the indigenous people, the Aborigines, who suffered dearly from this invasion. Even today, these ‘original’ people are at the bottom of the socio-economic pole with very little hope or opportunity to escape the ravages of poverty, alcoholism and drug dependency. A fate similar to that suffered by the native people of North America at the hands of the same “Christian” European invaders you so ignorantly hold up as paragons of virtue spreading the “holy” word of God to primitive and backward species. If these savages can’t be wiped out by bullets, converted to our “religion” like the stupid African slaves then we will destroy their livelihood by wiping the bison from the face of the plains. What a holy band of Christians exploiting, pillaging and killing in the name of Jesus!

    Like

  22. zion1971 February 18, 2012 at 3:12 PM #

    Australians PM talking one load of crap. They stole the aboriginese land. What sanctimonious balloney. For she not to see the irony and hypocracy in her statement is unbelievable.

    Like

  23. Amused February 18, 2012 at 4:52 PM #

    @millertheanunnaki | February 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM. Really. Very interesting. I am amused to be instructed on how the UK Constitution works. The Queen actually has a great deal of power in the UK. She rarely expresses an opinion, but when she does, because of her standing (not simply because she is monarch, but due to her service to that country and her tremendous personal popularity) it is the last word – and that, I suspect, is what has got up your nose. That the UK is a “constitutional monarchy” every idiot knows, including you, it seems. However, the idea that the Queen is without power is just plain silly. She stands in the position that denies ultimate power to those elected officials who might misuse it in the UK. And she has been very careful never to misuse her power. However you may choose to interpret the role of a constitutional monarch, that is the practicality of the situation.

    I don’t understand your points about Australia or Australasia. They have developed a way of life and a society in which the majority agree with their PM. And I agree with their PM. I don’t care what, centuries ago, may have been the been the circumstances. I am concerned with the circumstances today. I relate it to Barbados. You, from what you have said, would not agree at all, but I STRONGLY object to persons or groups of persons coming in here by immigration and then trying to curtail our social customs and practices and to force their own down our throats. So, I agree completely with the views of the Australian PM. Why in hell should Bajans be forced to forego the customs and practices that define us as Bajan in order to espouse the customs and practices of others who have come to our shores, simply because those shores are preferable to them than the ones on which they were born?

    Now, you can be as specious and pedantic as you like, but the fact is that we are a Christian society with a culture that is identifiably Bajan. Australia of today is the same. If people come to our country to live, then they are best to consider whether they can do so within our parameters and in peaceful coexistence with Bajans and respect for the precedence of our society and customs. If not, please leave and find somewhere more socially confused – like Canada.

    Like

  24. millertheanunnaki February 18, 2012 at 5:39 PM #

    @ Amused | February 18, 2012 at 4:52 PM |
    “You, from what you have said, would not agree at all, but I STRONGLY object to persons or groups of persons coming in here by immigration and then trying to curtail our social customs and practices and to force their own down our throats.”

    Bloody amusing fool! It not what the British did to the indigenous people of Australia? Only if the Aborigines and the native Americans had followed your advice!

    What red herring are you coming with about immigration in Barbados. People coming to Bim to settle are not doing it by ‘force and with arms’. They are allowed to stay here by the law or by bribery of the political and bureaucratic officials. It’s a sad reflection of a society when officials are easily bribed or its values and mores are so vulnerable as to be overtaken by a transported culture of an immigrant minority. That is why people like you need to take stock of what is going on in places where this “foreign” culture is taking root rapidly in places like Kensington New Road, if you dare to do. If you are not happy with the laws then change the Constitution and only allow people that meet your biased and bigoted requirements to settle as it prevailed in the same Australia even up to the 1970’s – NO People of African descent allowed to settled permanently ,with a few exceptions (honorary whites).

    By the way and for your information, Barbados is NOT a Christian Society but a Secular One where people of varying or no faith can live side by side. If Barbados was a truly Christian society then we would not have so many single parent households, teenage pregnancies, 20% of people living below the poverty line, HIV/AIDS, homosexuality, prostitution, drug addiction, gambling, lying by politicians, crime and last but not least commercialized Christianity and the prosperity gospel.

    Like

  25. Hants February 18, 2012 at 5:45 PM #

    I hope Barbados does not follow the lead of the UK and Canada.

    Immigrants should be allowed to practice their religions only if it is within the laws and norms of the Country.

    Why can’t Muslims and non believers wait outside the council chambers until the end of “Christian prayers”?

    I is a Bajan. I live in Canada and I don’t spit in the street or pee behind de palin.

    Like

  26. David February 18, 2012 at 5:50 PM #

    The ethos which pervades the BU household is defined by those adults who are members of the household i.e. husband, wide, children and immediate offspring

    Those who visit or are invited must be guided accordingly.

    No one comes into the BU household and disrespect what defines who and what we are.

    Like

  27. David February 18, 2012 at 6:04 PM #

    BU words have not fallen to the ground:

    Council ‘prayer ban’ overturned

    Sat Feb 18 2012 11:02

    © REUTERS/Andrew Winning

    Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has made moves to overturn a High Court decision banning councils from holding prayers before meetings.

    The court ruled last week that local authorities could not hold prayers during meetings, sparking fierce debate between Christian activists claiming the religious values of the UK were being eroded, and campaigners who say Britain is no longer a religious country, and such traditions are outdated and discriminatory.

    Mr Pickles now says he is “effectively reversing” the judgment, however, fast-tracking the implementation of a general power of competence – contained in last year’s Localism Act – enabling councils to do anything an individual can do that is not illegal.

    He has said he hopes this will render the High Court ruling – which followed objections to prayers at Bideford Town Council in Devon – irrelevant.

    The National Secular Society and an atheist ex-councillor had argued that Bideford council was acting unlawfully by putting prayers on meeting agendas, a complaint which was effectively upheld by the court, which ruled that councils lacked power under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972 to hold prayers “as part of a formal local authority meeting”.

    Mr Pickles said: “The High Court judgment has far wider significance than just the municipal agenda of Bideford Town Council.

    “By effectively reversing that illiberal ruling, we are striking a blow for localism over central interference, for freedom to worship over intolerant secularism, for Parliamentary sovereignty over judicial activism, and for long-standing British liberties over modern-day political correctness.”

    He went on: “Last week’s case should be seen as a wake-up call. For too long, the public sector has been used to marginalise and attack faith in public life, undermining the very foundations of the British nation. But this week, the tables have been turned.”

    Like

  28. millertheanunnaki February 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM #

    Hants | February 18, 2012 at 5:45 PM |
    “Immigrants should be allowed to practice their religions only if it is within the laws and norms of the Country.”

    Agree! One cannot find fault with this position. The same way you would have to obey the perceived ‘draconian laws’ that you and any female partner of yours must adhere to in Saudi Arabia. No consumption of pork products, no alcohol consumption, “pokey” unless married under Islamic law, no holding hands in public and your partner must partially cover her face and can’t drive a vehicle or walk next to you.

    “Why can’t Muslims and non believers wait outside the council chambers until the end of “Christian prayers?”

    The same way the following question can be posed to people like you.
    Why can’t Christians prayer outside or in another room before the Council meeting?
    Neither Canada, UK or Barbados is a theocratic State. They are all secular so religion must not be mixed with government or political processes.
    “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s!” Sounds familiar?

    Like

  29. Amused February 18, 2012 at 6:20 PM #

    @millertheanunnaki | February 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM. Suggest, fool, that you try to discover, if you are capable that is, were you actually stand and stop contradicting yourself. Barbados is a Christian society and culture. Ever heard of “majority rule”, jackass? So why the hell should the majority who wish to ask the guidance of the Almighty have to go and do it in another room because you have an axe to grind, because you don’t believe in God and think that no one else should be allowed to? Either leave the room until the prayers are over, or be respectfully silent while the will of the majority is carried out.

    Like

  30. millertheanunnaki February 18, 2012 at 7:40 PM #

    @ Amused | February 18, 2012 at 6:20 PM |
    “Barbados is a Christian society and culture.”

    True to form , Amused. Don’t attack me counter my arguments!
    In what way is Barbados a ‘Christian society and culture’? Do you think that attending religious houses make you ‘christian’?

    When was Barbados ever a ‘christian’ place? Go tell that to the African slaves that were brought here between 1680 and 1812. Oh, what “christian” treatment was meted out to them! And what about the blacks who had to live under a veritable system of apartheid and subjugation? Could not attend churches (ask Sarah Ann Gill if you can), could not marry or vote; not even own land or conduct trade; just be part of the horrid plantation system to make other people rich in order to make large bequeaths to the Church in the form of Glebe land and property.
    Deny that if you can!

    BTW, who is the Almighty? Jesus, Allah, Muhammad, Buddha, Vishnu, Shiva, Yahweh?
    You bigoted, blinkered, myopic person, no different from those Islamic fundamentalists. Next minute you would want to send me to Hell by burning me at the stake- not even a mock trial at thee Court of Inquisition. Now let the SUN shine in your eyes and get a planetary perspective on life and you would become enlightened not confined to your Judeo-Christian cocoon: As the ad goes : “the Sun shines upon all of us!”

    Like

  31. Hants February 18, 2012 at 7:53 PM #

    millertheanunnaki wrote “Why can’t Christians prayer outside or in another room before the Council meeting?”

    The Christians are in their own country and their religion has been Christianity.
    New immigrants bringing new religions cannot over rule the majority.

    Like

  32. millertheanunnaki February 18, 2012 at 8:11 PM #

    @ Hants | February 18, 2012 at 7:53 PM |

    You are missing the point, Hants. Council meetings are NOT about religious matters but are about secular affairs of the jurisdiction. Why the need for common prayer? God is NOT interested in whether a contract for the construction of a road should be given to a supporter of the ruling party.
    Only if the road would benefit the residents and does nor despoil the environment. You get my drift, sonny? Please understand the meaning of the reference to the “things that are of Caesar (Worldly) and those that are of God (Spiritual).

    Like

  33. harry February 19, 2012 at 5:34 PM #

    the wicked rule this world.
    they are the devils people.
    of course they don’t want to prey
    or have god in schools.
    or any where because money is the root of all evil and in this 2012.
    living in a system ruled by money .
    the devils are getting a stronghold.
    without all the long talk.
    the devils people rule this world.
    is it not plain to see??????????

    Like

  34. harry February 19, 2012 at 7:37 PM #

    Like

  35. harry February 19, 2012 at 7:39 PM #

    watch link to movie above and all will be answered for you.

    Like

  36. islandgal246 February 19, 2012 at 7:56 PM #

    “of course they don’t want to prey”

    Harry Harry quite contrary
    It’s PRAY and not prey

    Like

  37. islandgal246 February 19, 2012 at 8:08 PM #

    Millerthewise……….Until Black people understand their history they will continue to practice their oppressor’s religion. How can someone call a religion that was forced on their ancestors their culture? How can anyone accept a GOD that was forced upon them as theirs. Are we so brainwashed that we cannot see and understand this? This religion called Christianity has enslaved us further to continue giving the descendants of our oppressors power over us. We will never be FREE thinkers with this weight around our necks.

    Like

  38. harry February 20, 2012 at 7:16 AM #

    i think you know what i mean don’t you.island girl
    or is it a pun. you figure it out.

    Like

  39. harry February 20, 2012 at 7:20 AM #

    black peoples history is Africa it is the only place you can find your roots.
    please return there.
    it would solve all your problems.
    noted that the English whom enslaved Irish and Scottish before any African
    now own and are buying back your island.
    how ironic.

    Like

  40. David February 20, 2012 at 1:10 PM #

    What is and what isn’t. What about the gospels left out of the bible?

    Like

  41. millertheanunnaki February 20, 2012 at 3:36 PM #

    @ David | February 20, 2012 at 1:10 PM |

    Only goes to show that the Judeo-Christian religious texts are not the “Word of God” but the writings of religious scholars and catholic politicians and zealots parading as god’s representatives on Earth. I have been to the Basilica and the Sistine Chapel and all I saw were images of the worship of “Sol Invictus”.

    Like

  42. David February 20, 2012 at 3:58 PM #

    Hi Zoe

    Your comment is valued here.

    What about the Gospel of Philip?

    Why ascribe the Gospels to men when there is no proof they wrote them?

    Why allow the real reason Constantinople used relation to fly under the radar?

    Why, why,why!

    Like

  43. millertheanunnaki February 20, 2012 at 4:19 PM #

    Zoe, We want to her from you and the other fanatics (fans) who continuously spew forth the tripe that the ‘Bible’ in the Word of the living God even if the Chinese or Indians don’t give two hoots about your gods.

    Get real people, you all have been hoodwinked! Go live in Britain for a short while and you would see Christianity at it best. Remember this is the country that indoctrinated you lot with religious serum and the opiate of the slave-minded.

    Like

  44. Zoe February 20, 2012 at 7:48 PM #

    @Nukai/Ralian and all other IGNORANT ‘Scoffers’ I challenge you to historically, cogently, logically, legally, coherently and empirically, to refute confute, the salient assertions I made below a few days ago, instead of your UTTERLY INCOHERENT, callow, incognizant, inconversant, uninformed, Worldview, HOGWASH, folly and benigned FOOLISHNESS!

    Zoe | February 17, 2012 at 11:57 AM |
    “The historic, empirical, logical, verasity of God’s Word, the Bible, stands literally unparalelled with ANY other ancient ‘religious’ document, BAR NONE!”

    “Every ancient, PAGANISTIC civilization, that worshipped FALSE, demonic dieties, ALL came to utter ruination, exactly as as was prophecied by Almighty God’s Word, the Bible. Because HE* IS* the Only, One, True and living God, of Historic, Divine Revelation as contained in His Word.”

    “And, over the last 2000 years, beginning with the embryonic birth of His True Church, in the Apostolic era, NOT, Roman Catholicism, the Whore of Revelation, and all of the other FALSE, demonic heretical groups, and cults, which have NO part in His True, Redeemed ‘Church’ BUT, those who belong to His ‘Ecclesia’ the called out ones, have confirmed repeatedly, over and over again, by, LOGICAL CONSISTENCY, EMPIRICAL ADEQUACY, and EXPERIENTIAL RELEVANCY, the FACT, of His Word, beginning in the Book of Genesis, and throughout history, right up until TODAY, exactly what HE said, would transpire, culmanating IN* the present world wide chaos, politically, socially, economically, and otherwise, CONFIRMING without fear of contradiction, that HE* Almighty God, and His Son, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, ARE the Only Saviour of mankind, for there NONE other!”

    “All else, contrary to His Omnipotent Word, are utter Demonic falsity, and HOGWASH from the pit of Hell!”

    Like

  45. Zoe February 20, 2012 at 8:14 PM #

    It is interesting, and significant, that every year around Easter and Christmas, our Head of State, our Governor General, PMs both BLP and DLP, as well as Opposition Leaders, invariably make specific referrence TO the Bible, God’s Word, and Our lord and Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Because, they all recognize, whether nominally, or by personal Christian conviction, that HE* IS, and has been our guide, protector, and sustainer, as did the US Presidents of old, as demonstrated below!

    What Does Separation of Church & State Really Mean?Posted: June 22, 2011 in Politics, Religion

    Tags: First Amendment to the United States Constitution, God, Politics, Separation of Church & State, United States Bill of Rights The words, “Separation of Church & State” are not in the Bill of Rights or in any other founding document of this country. It is merely a paraphrase of Article 1 of the Bill of Rights. Liberal Progressives use the paraphrase of the actual article because it suits their purposes better. This article will put to bed every argument that says that the “Separation of Church & State” Clause, or properly, the Bill of Rights: Article 1, means no mention or display of “God” in public forums. If we allow our judges to legislate from the bench, our country will be doomed to failure & tyranny.

    There is no Separation of Church & State

    In 1791, only 15 years after the Declaration of Independence was signed, our founding fathers wrote the Bill of Rights. Amendment 1 is the clause describing the “Separation of Church & State”. It is the most abused right in our nation today. Not because our nation has ever broken it, but because it is consistently misrepresented and misinterpreted by those who wish to destroy religion in America. Including our judges.

    Bill of Rights (1791)
    Amendment I

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
    religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and
    to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    There is absolutely nothing in this clause that states that Christianity should be removed from Congress. Nor does it say that God is not the Ruler of our nation. Nor does it say that religious statements can’t be made in government or public forums. It said that Congress make not create a LAW establishing a national religion and that Congress may not restrict anyone’s practice of their religion. The latest scourge of our time, progressivism, continues to violate this right every day. They are attempting to deny the right of all people to practice Christianity in congress, in courthouses and in schools. If we, the PEOPLE, wish to see ‘God’ on our money, on our Court House, on our Congressional Floor, then we can. This is our RIGHT. Further, if Congress prohibits us from doing so, then it is in direct violation of this first Amendment! We are living in opposite world, here, people. Claim your right and if necessary, FIGHT for it.

    Now, forget those legalities for a minute and observe the actions and statements of our founding fathers for further proof of their intentions when writing that first amendment.

    In 1782, The United States Congress printed the first American Bible for the use of soldiers & school chilren:

    “The first English Bible printed in this country, as well as the first Bible to
    be recommended to the people by the Congress of the United States, was
    relatively small in dimensions. It measured but five and five-eighths inches by
    three and one-eighth inches. Printed in brevier type on American-made paper, it
    contained 726 leaves (1,452 pages). It is considered to be an excellent piece of printing with remarkably few divided words and with pages unmarred by “rivers” of blank space.”

    The founding document of our nation, The Declaration of Independence, validates the morality of the colonies’ rebellion through the principles of GOD:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..”

    Now, let’s consider the words which fell from their very lips:

    John Adams

    “I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof!”-John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, November 2, 1800

    Ben Franklin

    “All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?”-Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

    Thomas Jefferson

    “And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed
    their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these
    liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his
    wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.”-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781

    James Madison

    “It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it [the
    Constitution] a finger of that Almighty hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution.”-James Madison, Federalist No. 37, January 11, 1788

    Thomas Paine

    “But where says some is the King of America? I’ll tell you Friend, he reigns
    above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the Royal Brute of Britain…let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America THE LAW IS KING.”-Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776

    George Washington

    “I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.”-George Washington, circular letter of farewell to the Army,
    June 8, 1783

    ’nuff said, People.

    Like

  46. Zoe February 20, 2012 at 8:44 PM #

    “What Effect Did the Council of Nicea Have on Determining What Books Belonged in the Bible? There have been accusations that the council of Nicea had a tremendous effect on both choosing what books should be in the Bible and changing some of the doctrines that the church held before that time.” NONSENSE! Never happened!

    “The council of Nicea met in A.D. 323 to discuss how Jesus Christ was related to God. There were some in the church, led by Arius of Alexandria, who denied that Jesus Christ was God in human flesh, the Second Person of the Trinity. In order to answer these issues, the church had to make a pronouncement about which books authoritative doctrine could be based on.”

    “The council of Nicea did NOT meet to discuss which books belonged in the New Testament canon. It only recognized the books that the church had from the beginning considered to be the Word of God.”

    Already Composed

    “The books that were recognized as Scripture had already been composed at the time. All the books contained in the New Testament were composed before the end of the first century. Some fifty existing papyrus manuscripts written before A.D. 325 contain parts of every book of the New Testament except 1 Timothy.”

    “There is NO truth to the argument, so often brought up, that some of these books were not in existence until the council of Nicea. The argument, therefore, that certain doctrines were invented at this time has no basis in fact.”

    Like

  47. David February 20, 2012 at 8:49 PM #

    @Zoe

    The argument put forward in the video has to do with WHY certain books were omitted from the bible;

    Why certain books were ascribed to certain Apostles even though there was no evidence to support they wrote the books; and

    the fact the Constantine saw religion as unifying the Roman Empire, i.e. it was political and this is why Christianity gained popularity.

    Answer to the issues on the table.

    Like

  48. Zoe February 20, 2012 at 9:16 PM #

    “What about Other Books that Claim Biblical Authority? Throughout the history of the church many documents surfaced that claimed to have been written by the apostles or those intimately familiar with the life of Christ. However these works were written by someone other than the named author. These fraudulent works are known as the pseudepigrapha (forgeries). They are also known as apocryphal works, and were rejected by all. The early church father, Eusebius, called these books “totally absurd and impious.” Over three hundred different works that fit into this category have been catalogued.”

    Other Gospels

    “Among the forgeries were a large number of apocryphal or false gospels. Origen, a third century writer, testified to the existence of other gospels when he wrote, “There are many who have tried to write gospels, but not all have been accepted.”

    The biblical scholar Edwin Yamauchi offers an appropriate comment:

    “The apocryphal gospels are non-canonical writings of a motley variety about the purported deeds and revelations of Jesus Christ. Though the Greek word apocrypha originally meant “hidden,” the church fathers used it to describe spurious writings foisted as gospels. Irenaeus refers to ‘an unspeakable number of apocryphal and spurious writings, which they themselves (i. e. the heretics) had forged to bewilder the minds of the foolish.’ Although some of them were patterned after the canonical gospels, many bear little resemblance to them. As Origen noted, The Church possesses four Gospels, heresy a great many’ (Edwin M. Yamauchi, “The Word From Nag Hammadi,” Christianity Today, January 13, 1978, p. 19).

    Gnostic Influence

    “Many of these works were influenced by gnosticism. The word gnostic means “one who has knowledge.” The gnostics taught that salvation came by secret knowledge of God. The gnostic view of God is contrary to the Bible. In addition, the gnostics considered that all matter is evil.”

    “An example of gnostic writing can be found in the Gospel of Philip. The original Gospel of Philip was probably written sometime during the second century A.D. The influence of gnosticism and its emphasis on secret knowledge can be clearly seen in this work. The Gospel of Philip reads,”

    “The Logos said: If you know the truth the truth will make you free. Ignorance is a slave, knowledge is freedom. When we recognize the truth we shall find the fruits of truth in our hearts. If we unite with it, we will bring our fulfillment.”

    Different Level

    Other statements show that they are on a different level than Scripture.

    “A Gentile man does not die, for he has never lived that he should die. Adam came into being from two virgins, from the Spirit and from the virgin earth. Because of this Christ was born of a virgin, in order that he might set in order the stumbling which came to pass at the beginning.”

    These fanciful statements betray their non-biblical source.

    Second-Hand Sources

    “The pseudepigrapha, apart from being forgeries, were also written long after, in some cases hundreds of years after, the New Testament events. The writers were not eyewitnesses to the life of Christ or to the events of the early church. This is another reason to reject the testimony which they give.”

    Gospel of Thomas

    “One of the most prominent of all the forgeries is the Gospel of Thomas. The Gospel of Thomas was probably composed in Edessa in Syria about A.D. 140. Consisting of 114 sayings of Jesus, it is the most extensive collection of non-biblical sayings of Jesus that still exist. The Gospel of Thomas begins as follows:”

    “These are the secret words which the living Jesus spoke and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote. And He said: Whosoever finds the explanation of these words shall not taste death.”

    We know that the Gospel of Thomas is a forgery for the following reasons:

    Incorrect Name

    “The author is not Thomas. Whoever wrote the Gospel of Thomas used the incorrect name when referring to the Apostle Thomas as Didymus Judas Thomas. In the four Gospels, Thomas is referred to as either Didymus or Thomas, not both at once. Didymus is the word for “twin” in both Greek and Aramaic, so the author of the Gospel of Thomas must not have been aware of this linguistic connotation.”

    Secret Approach

    “The secret approach found in the Gospel of Thomas is typical of the writings of the gnostics. The four Gospels are open about the ways of salvation and the kingdom of God while the Gospel of Thomas views truth from a hidden vantage point.”

    “There is no historical setting for the statements. The Gospel of Thomas is a compilation of sayings without the inclusion of important historical events as recorded in the Gospels. We are not told when or under what circumstances the statements were made.”

    Contradicts Four Gospels

    “Many of the sayings are contradictory to those we have in the Gospels. For example, saying 114 says:”

    “Jesus said, ‘See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.'”

    Different Jesus

    “The person of Jesus Christ is different than the one revealed in the Gospels. In the Gospels Jesus is God the Son, Second Person of the Trinity. In the Gospel of Thomas He is one who points the way by which an individual can attain the knowledge of God.”

    “These reasons demonstrate that the Gospel of Thomas is a forgery rather than a legitimate work written by one of Jesus’ apostles.”

    Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ

    “One alternative explanation of the life and ministry of Jesus that has caused considerable interest is the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ. This work was written by Levi Dowling (1844-1911). based upon communication he received from an alleged “universal mind.” The Aquarian Gospel attempts to fill in some of the missing years of Jesus’ youth as well as explain His wisdom by attributing it to contact with holy men of other religions. The result is a contradictory mixture of Christian science and occultic thought.”

    “The name is derived from the astrological idea that a new Aquarian age has come upon us, bringing with it the need for a new spiritual gospel, the Aquarian gospel.”

    Content

    “The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ attempts to fill in some of the blanks in the life of Jesus. Some of the material in the Aquarian Gospel is borrowed from the ancient Gospel of James, a well-known forgery in the early years of the church. The most prominent part of the book deals with the education and travel of Jesus. According to the Aquarian Gospel, Jesus first studied under the Jewish teacher Hillel and then went to India to spend time with their holy men. His learning also supposedly took Him to Tibet, Persia. Assyria, Greece, and Egypt. It was in Egypt that Jesus was said to have joined the sacred brotherhood. He passed through seven degrees and emerged as the Logos. In Alexandria a council of seven sages was held where they formulated seven great religious postulates and ordained Jesus for the work of the ministry.”

    “The Aquarian Gospel then rewrites the four gospels according to its own particular viewpoint. The end of the story has Jesus appearing in a materialized body to people in India, Persia, Greece, and other countries.”

    Evaluation

    “Like many previous attempts, the Aquarian Gospel attempts to give an explanation of the wisdom and character of Jesus apart from the biblical depiction. Dowling’s reconstruction shows obvious borrowing from the Ancient Gospel of James, as well as familiarity with a nineteenth century works, Notovitch’s Unknown Life of Jesus Christ.”

    “The book begins with an historical inaccuracy: “Augustus Caesar reigned and Herod Antipas was ruler in Jerusalem.” This is an error because Antipas ruled in Galilee, never in Jerusalem.”

    “A crucial problem with the Aquarian Gospel concerns its scenario of the source of Jesus’ teachings. If Jesus obtained His wisdom from the masters of India, Greece, and other countries, then why doesn’t His teaching reflect it? The teachings of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, are in direct conflict with every central belief of Hinduism, Buddhism, and the other religions with which He supposedly came into contact!”

    “The simple fact is that we have in the Gospels a firsthand account of the life and ministry of Jesus. The Aquarian Gospel is a false portrait of the life of Christ, not based upon historical records or eyewitness testimony but rather upon the recollections of an ancient forgery and the imagination of a twentieth-century writer. It has no value whatsoever in providing new or accurate information on the life of Christ.”

    The Archko Volume

    “One of the most famous written hoaxes is the Archko Volume. The work is also known as the “Report of Pilate” or “Archko Library.” The content of this work is an alleged report of the trial and death of Jesus made by Pontius Pilate to the Emperor Tiberius. Its existence can be traced back to Rev. W. D. Mahan of Boonville, Missouri, who published a thirty-two page pamphlet in 1879 titled, “A Correct Transcript of Pilate’s Court.”

    “The success of the “Report of Pilate” led Mahan to make some more “discoveries” including: an interview with the shepherds who were given the announcement of Christ’s birth, Gamaliel’s interview with Joseph and Mary, Eli’s story of the Magi, and other previously unknown interviews surrounding the life and ministry of Jesus. Mahan claimed these “interviews” were translated from ancient manuscripts in Rome or Constantinople.”

    Edgar Goodspeed writes concerning the accuracy of the “interviews”:

    “The picture of Jesus in his interview with Pilate is romantic and theatrical, and the Pilate reflected in the “Report” is historically improbable.”

    “The whole work is a weak, crude fancy, a jumble of high-sounding but meaningless words, and hardly worth serious criticism. It is difficult to see how it could have deceived anyone…. Like the *Report of Pilate,” these [the other interviews] bristle with childish blunders…. The supposed references to Josephus’s Jewish Wars … simply do not exist. The statement that Josephus in his Antiquities refers to Jesus in more than fifty places is false … That Tacitus wrote his history of Agricola in A.D. 56 is of course an error; Tacitus was born in 55, and even if he had been able to write his father-in-law’s biography at the age of one year, there was nothing yet to write, for Agricola himself was only nineteen (Edgar Goodspeed, Famous Biblical Hoaxes, pp. 33, 35).”

    “As can be imagined, the “Report of Pilate” as well as the later interviews were immediately exposed as frauds. It was noticed, for instance, that entire pages of Eli’s story of the Magi were copied verbatim from the novel Ben Hur.”

    Unhappily, people continue to read and believe these fraudulent works although they have no basis in fact.

    The Lost Books of the Bible

    “One of the most often asked questions concerns the so-called “Lost Books of the Bible.” A book with this title was produced in 1926. It was the reprint of William Hone’s Apocryphal New Testament, first printed in 1820. Hone’s book was copied from two earlier one’s published in 1736 and 1737. Thus the materials found in the “Lost Books of the Bible” were written 250 years ago. Since the time of the original wilting of the lost books, the field of manuscript studies has made tremendous advances but none of this has been taken into account by those who publish these works.”

    The contents of the “lost books” include the following:

    Four Infancy Gospels:

    “They include: “The Birth of Mary,” a work written in the middle of the second century; “The Protoevangelium of James,” written about the same time; the first “Gospel of Infancy.” composed about A.D. 400; “The Second Infancy Gospel,” which in reality is a fragment of the Gospel of Thomas.”

    “These were so-called infancy gospels that were written to fill in the details of the early unrecorded years of the life of Christ. These works include stories of Jesus forming clay figures of animals and birds which He makes walk, fly, and eat. Another account has a child who runs into Jesus falling down dead. These examples are representative of the fanciful nature of the accounts.”

    The Letter of King Abgar

    “This was supposedly a letter written to Jesus by Abgar, King of Edessa. Jesus’ reply to the letter is also contained. These works were written in the third century.”

    Gospel of Nicodemus

    “This is also known as “The Acts of Pilate.” It was written in the fourth or fifth century.”

    “Other works found among the lost books include the Apostles’ Creed and the spurious letter from Paul to the Laodiceans.”

    “These books have been called “outlaw” Scriptures by some. But this is not the case, for none of these works were ever thought of as part of the New Testament. Anyone who claims these works were suppressed by the church is speaking out of IGNORANCE or a desire to deceive.”

    “It is obvious from the date of composition of these works that they cannot be considered on the same plane as Holy Scripture, which was written by eyewitnesses or people who recorded eyewitness testimony of the life and ministry of Jesus.”

    Contrast With Four Gospels

    One hundred years ago F.W. Farrar wrote the following that is still true today:

    “The Four Gospels superseded all others and won their way into universal acceptance by their intrinsic value and authority. After so many salutary losses we still possess a rich collection of Apocryphal Gospels, and, if they serve no other good purpose, they have this value, that they prove for us undoubtedly the unique and transcendent superiority of the sacred records. These bear the stamp of absolute truthfulness, all the more decisively when placed in contrast with the writings which show signs of willful falsity. We escape their lying magic to find support and help from the genuine gospels. And here we take refuge with the greater confidence because the ruins which lie around the ancient archives of the Church look like a guarantee of the enduring strength and greatness of those archives themselves (F. W. Farrar, The Messages of the Books, p. 27).”

    A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, the editors of the AnteNicene Library, said the other gospels offer …

    curious glimpses of the state of the Christian conscience, and of modes of thought in the first centuries of our era, the predominant impression which they leave on our minds is the immeasurable superiority, the unapproachable simplicity

    Like

  49. Zoe February 20, 2012 at 10:38 PM #

    Another amazing reality, confirming the TRUTH of Almighty God’s Word, the Bible, that has NEVER failed ONCE in any of HIS* prophetic pronouncements, throughout the course of history!

    Old Testament prophecy
    fulfilled before our eyes?
    Americans scrambling to Bible to see
    previously untold parallels with today

    “What do sycamore and cedar trees have to do with biblical prophecy, the tragic events of 9/11 and the imminent future of the United States?”

    “The roots of a sycamore tree at Ground Zero felled on Sept. 11, 2001, have been preserved as a memorial to the event in New York City. A local messianic rabbi believes it’s a visible fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy about God’s current judgment on America.”

    “Everything, according to a new book which says an obscure text from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah is an urgent wake-up call for all Americans in light of what happened on that fateful day in 2001.”

    “The Harbinger” by Jonathan Cahn, a messianic rabbi from the Jerusalem Center-Beth Israel Congregation in Wayne, N.J., deciphers stunning connections between what some may think is a cryptic biblical prophecy to the news events happening right now, in our current time.”

    “Read “The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America’s Future” for yourself!”

    “The key verse in question is Isaiah 9:10, which states: “The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.” (King James Version)

    “These words were first uttered by leaders in ancient Israel and in response to a limited strike by Assyria on the lands of Zebulun and Naphtali – an attack the prophet makes clear is actually part of a limited judgment by God against apostasy. It wasn’t meant to destroy the nation, but to awaken it, according to most commentaries.”

    “Historically speaking, the northern kingdom of Israel did not repent of its rebellion against God’s commandments, and were eventually conquered and deported from their property by the ancient Assyrians. Eventually, the southern kingdom of Judah was also overcome by the Babylonians after the Jews refused to repent as well.”

    “But in “The Harbinger,” Cahn shows uncanny similarities between what’s stated in Isaiah 9:10 to the 21st century events of 9/11 and the years afterward, suggesting America is currently under a time of focused judgment by Almighty God.”

    “Cahn claims the part of the prophecy noting “The bricks are fallen down” refers directly to the crumbling of the World Trade Center in New York City, with the verse connoting on an attitude of defiance, a desire to rebuild with stronger materials instead of acknowledging the hand of God and moving toward national repentance.”

    “The verse mentions sycamore and cedar trees, and it’s here that things start to get eerie with the terrorist attack involving planes that smashed into the Twin Towers, leading to their eventual crumbling.”

    “After the cloud of dust began to clear, police officers, rescue workers and onlookers gazed at the little plot of land at the edge of Ground Zero,” Cahn writes in “The Harbinger.”

    “There in the middle of the ash and debris that covered the ground was a fallen tree. It would soon become a symbol of 9/11 and of Ground Zero. And it was a symbol … but one much more ancient than anyone there could have realized, and one carrying a message no one could have fathomed.”

    “The tree at Ground Zero that was struck down on September 11 was a sycamore tree.”

    “Cahn notes that in Old Testament times, the Assyrians who attacked the ancient Israelites intended to cut down the sycamore trees belonging to God’s people. But the intention was not present with the hijackers of 2001. ”

    “The terrorists had no idea of Isaiah 9:10, no idea of the Harbingers, no idea of the sycamore tree growing at the corner of Ground Zero, and no idea that their attack would cause it to fall or that its fall was connected to an ancient prophecy. They had no idea … but it still happened.”

    “Not only was a sycamore tree struck on 9/11, but it was replaced in the exact same location by another tree of the type mentioned in the original Hebrew, an “erez” tree, which is the same genus as the cedar.
    The uprooted sycamore tree from Ground Zero was replaced by the “Tree of Hope,” a conifer tree which Rabbi Jonathan Cahn says fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah 9:10.

    “The most natural thing to have done would have been to replace one sycamore with another,” Cahn writes. “But the prophecy required that the fallen sycamore be replaced with a tree of an entirely different nature. So the tree that replaced the sycamore of Ground Zero was likewise not a sycamore. According to the prophecy, the sycamore must be replaced by the biblical erez. So it must be replaced by a conifer tree.”

    “And that’s what took place in 2003, as a conifer tree, the “Tree of Hope” as it was called, was planted in the spot where the sycamore was slammed on 9/11.”

    “Think about it,” says Cahn. “Who could have put it all together? The tower fell because of the terrorists. It happened to fall exactly as it did in order to strike down that one particular tree. The tree just happened to be a sycamore, which just happened to be growing at the corner of Ground Zero.”

    “The tree that would replace it just happened to be given as a gift from outsiders who had nothing to do with anything else, but who just happened to feel led to give it. Their gift just happened to be the fulfillment of the biblical Erez Tree, which just happened to be the same tree spoken of in the ancient vow – the tree that must replace the Sycamore.”

    “They just happened to lower it into the same soil in that the fallen Sycamore had once stood – exactly as in the Hebrew of the ancient vow. And the man who led the ceremony around the tree just happened to bring it all together without knowing that he was bringing anything together. No one knew what they were doing. It wasn’t a matter of intent. It was a manifestation of the Harbingers.”

    “The parallels are truly stunning,” says Joseph Farah, founder of WND, who is producing a video documentary about Cahn’s findings. “They are too numerous and too powerful to relate in news story form. In fact, they are overwhelming in their number and their exactitude. I am persuaded God is trying to tell America something and Rabbi Cahn has found the key to unlocking the message.”

    “As WND previously reported, two major American political figures actually voiced the Isaiah 9:10 prophecy in public in the immediate wake of the 9/11 onslaught.”

    “In the aftermath of the attack, the nation was stunned,” said Cahn, “Everyone was trying to make sense of what had happened – this unprecedented attack on America. The very next day, September 12, then Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle presented America’s response to the world. And what did he say?”

    Daschle said: “America will emerge from this tragedy as we have emerged from all adversity – united and strong. Nothing … nothing can replace the losses of those who have suffered. I know there is only the smallest measure of inspiration that can be taken from this devastation. But there is a passage in the Bible from Isaiah that speaks to all of us at times like this.”

    He then went on to read Isaiah 9:10.

    “Daschle has no idea what he is doing here,” explains Cahn. “He thinks he’s offering comforting words to a grief-stricken people, but he is actually embracing the spiritually defiant and arrogant words of the children of Israel, proclaiming the ancient and ominous vow of the leaders of that nation. He doesn’t realize it, but he is actually inviting more judgment on the nation.”

    “It might be of some significance that Daschle, one of the most powerful men in the nation when he spoke those words, later fell into disgrace – to the point where he couldn’t even serve in Barack Obama’s Cabinet.”

    “That might have been the end of the story – if no other top leader in the nation uttered those strange and obscure words after 9/11. But that’s not the case.”

    “On the third anniversary of the attack, Sept. 11, 2004, another powerful U.S. senator running for vice president that year and who would famously run for the presidency four years later, gave a speech to the Congressional Black Caucus.”

    “This time, John Edwards’ entire speech was built on a foundation of Isaiah 9:10: “Today, on this day of remembrance and mourning, we have the Lord’s Word to get us through,” he said. He then read Isaiah 9:10. He went on to talk about how America was doing just that – rebuilding with hewn stone and planting cedars:”

    “Like Daschle, Edwards thinks he’s invoking inspirational and comforting words from the Bible, but he’s actually inviting judgment on America,” says Cahn. “He’s repeating the vow that provoked God to bring calamity on ancient Israel.”

    “Get Rabbi Jonathan Cahn’s “The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America’s Future.”

    “Want to learn about prophecy by watching it? Get the “Apocalypse and the End Times” video

    “No matter when the end comes, find out what the Bible says is your true, incredibly glorious and immortal destiny that most churches never even mention in this autographed No. 1 best-seller, “Shocked by the Bible: The Most Astonishing Facts You’ve Never Been Told”

    Like

  50. millertheanunnaki February 20, 2012 at 10:58 PM #

    @ zoe:
    “And, over the last 2000 years, beginning with the embryonic birth of His True Church, in the Apostolic era, NOT, Roman Catholicism, the Whore of Revelation, and all of the other.”
    “The early church father, Eusebius, called these books “totally absurd and impious.” Over three hundred different works that fit into this category have been catalogued.”

    Don’t you find these two statements confusing and somewhat schizophrenic?
    If Roman Catholicism is False and Demonic why quote from any of its scholars? Was Eusebius a Roman Catholic or Not?

    You describe Roman Catholicism as a “Whore of Revelation”. So why quote any of her ‘johns’ as reliable sources? The same way the RC Church sought to expunge the writings of Mary Magdalene and defame (“blacken”) her name (implying she was a whore and not Jesus’s lover) you too are trying to imply the RC is involved n paganism and sorcery and not true “Christianity”.

    And while you are at it, Zoe, solve this “moving” puzzle. If your friend Jesus was crucified on a specific day called “Good Friday” (how ironic!) in say AD 33, how come Christians celebrate Good Friday and Easter on different or moving dates each year; unlike his birth at Xmas which is always December 25th? Good Friday and Easter can fall any time between March 20 and any date in April of any year. I know the astrological/astronomical reason. Do you know the Biblical reason for this “inconsistency”?

    Like

  51. TECHNICIAN February 20, 2012 at 11:44 PM #

    chocolate city hussle | February 17, 2012 at 4:33 PM |
    @TECHNICIAN | February 17, 2012 at 9:58 AM |

    i pity blinded people such as u. if u find yourself at death’s door tonight, you will be desperately looking around for someone to pray for you, begging those standing watching you, not to allow you to die. i truly pity you. should you die as you are, whether you accept it or not, you will face eternity WITHOUT God. sure respond to me with your delusional crap but remember you do have a conscious and it DOES tell you that God exist. you have the choice, we all do

    Been there, done that and never uttered a word!
    How could I if it is not my belief?
    Dont pity me…pity yourself. How do you know I will suffer eternity?…who went, saw and came back to tell you this?

    You are such an idiot…if we have a choice as you claim and I chose not to believe for my reasons, who then are you to pity me..you made your choice…good for you..I made mine and my conscience is clear…hope yours are too.
    This scare tactics crap you people use does not faze me. I have made my choice and that is what it is…wtf are you to question my choice…deal with yourself…I am good in my life.

    Like

  52. Zoe February 21, 2012 at 8:16 AM #

    @Nnaki/Ralian, Your typical ‘Redherring’ foolish distractive questions, obviously in IGNORANCE, have NO substance whatsoever in the historical context of the issue at hand.

    Because Roman Catholicism, historically, did not come into existence until around 324 AD, with the official imput of Constantine, and grew to the grotesque ‘Whore of Revelation’ the Hybrid union of State/Church, does NOT mean any of its scholars, I.e., Eusibius et al, could not write profound Truth, re the TRUE Apostolic Church 1st century AD, and its already well established doctrine, as recorded by the EYEWITNESES, Jesus’ Apostles, contained in the early MSS and following on in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, cementing the CORE Apostolic doctrine, of Jesus and His followers, attested to by both internal AND external evidence, from that early 1st century WITNESS, confirmed by the further writings and testimony, of the immediate 2nd century, post-apostolic fathers, all of who quoted FROM the 1st century apostolic witnesses, that the Word of God, WAS clearly grounded and established, BEFORE, these SPURIOUS, fradulent so-called gospels started appearing LONG after the the close of the 1st century consummation by the Apostle John on the Isle of Patmos approx 95AD, the Book of Revelation, sealing the Apostolic Canon of Scripture, God’s Word.

    These wicked, twisted, so-called, other gospels, were nothing more than another attempt by Satan, as he has been doing from the very beginning in Genesis, with Eve, ‘Hath God said…don’t believe Him…’ to pervert, corrupt the TRUTH, of Almighty God’s divinely inspired Word, he has FAILED on every count to discredit the Word of God; yes, Satan will always secure foolish followers, deceived people, who because they loved NOT the Truth, were given over to, released to a ‘spirit’ of LIES and deception.

    The indictment against Roman Catholicism, and some of its scholars, IS that while they defended the writings of the 1st century Apostolic Eyewitnesses of Jesus, against these heretical ‘other’ gospel MSS, as cited below, in Eusibius sound doctrinal Christological position, which even the Popes up unti today still profess, BUT, they then completely VITIATE this confessed, sound core Apostolic Truth, with the utter maze of Paganistic, false doctrine all mixed UP, with the Word of God.

    Can’t work, never will, as it IS* either/or, but certainly NOT both/and, as two competing TRUTH CLAIMS, cannot be both right, the unchanging Law of Non-Contradiction! EITHER/OR!

    Futher, the nonsense ‘Redherring’ you’ve tried to interject re Easter/Christmas, the birth of Christ, holds NO substance in the overall position of this issue at hand! Another piece of distractive FOLLY!

    “Eusebius recognized with genuine amazement that: “Jesus alone of all those who have ever existed is even to the present day called Christ [that is Messiah and Saviour of the world] by all men throughout the world, and is confessed and witnessed to under this name, and is commemorated both by Greeks and Barbarians and even to this day is honoured as a King by his followers throughout the world, and is admired as more than a prophet, and is glorified as the true and only High Priest of God. And besides all this, as the pre-existent Logos of God, called into being before all ages, he has received august honour from the Father, and is worshipped and adored as God. But most wonderful of all is the fact that we who have consecrated ourselves to him, honour him not only with our voices and with the sound of words, but also with complete elevation of soul, so that we choose to give testimony unto him rather than to preserve our own lives” (cf. I, 3, 19-20).

    Like

  53. millertheanunnaki February 21, 2012 at 8:32 AM #

    @ Zoe | February 21, 2012 at 8:16 AM |

    We see that you continue to “cherry-pick” your scholars and writers who fit your religious paradigm and leanings. OK!

    But what about the Good Friday & Easter bit?
    Or would you agree (putting words in your mouth) that it’s all paganism? Nothing to do with the death and resurrection of your lord and saviour J C!

    Like

  54. Zoe February 21, 2012 at 9:09 AM #

    Are the Gospels Accurate Historical Books?

    ” The core of the Christian faith rests on the foundation of four ancient biographies of Jesus’ life. If these Gospels are accurate historical records of Jesus’ life, their faith in Jesus is fully rationalized and in fact, all opposing beliefs become irrational. If Jesus rose from the dead as the Gospels claim, this validates his claim to be the Son of God. If Jesus taught the things attributed to him by the Gospels, faith in him is the only way to attain eternal salvation and all other ways lead to eternal separation from God. It is with a great urgency that I ask you to read on and examine my claims regarding the Gospels. I have studied this topic intensively and believe what I say to be of the utmost importance. I believe that the time of their writing, archaeological findings, ancient historical writings, and intelligent evaluation of the known facts should weigh heavily on your decision whether to take the Gospels at their literal word or reject this interpretation. Please give these thoughts objective consideration. To simply ignore the issue would be comparable to sitting on railroad tracks and ignoring warnings of a coming train. The question is- are these warnings valid?”

    When Were the Gospels Written?

    “One of the first considerations to be taken into account when evaluating the testimony of a witness is how well they preserved their information. As time elapses memories fade and the information offered is less accurate. Copies of copies of copies usually end up with variances from the original. If the men who wrote the Gospels did so soon after the death of Christ, the information may be considered more accurate as long as they were written with sincere intent to preserve history concerning the life of Jesus. Then the question arises as to whether these original manuscripts were preserved in future copies. I will attempt to address these concerns in the following essay.”

    “When were the Gospels written? I believe all four were written no later than 70 AD. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2, and Luke 21:6 of the coming destruction of the Jewish Temple (that occurred in 70 AD), while John leaves this out entirely. Would not the writers of the Gospels have included this as proof of Jesus’ prophecy had they been written after 70 AD? Would not they have placed emphasis and highlighted the completion of this prophecy? Surely John would have included this prophecy and its completion as well. In 64 AD a great fire broke out in Rome during the reign of Nero. Nero blamed this fire on the Christians living there and persecuted them greatly. As the historian Tacitus wrote in 115 AD…”

    “Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome… Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty: then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.”

    “Several key points should be noted from this passage. First, there was an immense multitude of Christians living in Rome by 64 AD. Suetonius, another Roman historian mentions Christians (denoting at least an amount significant enough to be mentioned) in Rome by 49 AD in his book The Twelve Caesars. Has any legend grown up so fast, so convincingly, and so far as to inspire “immense multitudes of believers” within 32 years of the legend’s origin? These Christians must have had written documents detailing the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Otherwise, how could they study his teachings? Would not they request written documents? How could they commit their lives to a mere rumor or legend with meager evidence and no written works to study? Numerous eyewitnesses of Jesus’ life were still around even in 64 AD who could have easily set the record straight had these Christians been proclaiming known lies about the life of Christ. We know of no such opposition. Furthermore, the Gospels (assumed written before 70 AD) would have gone through the same scrutiny. Surely any book written this early that contained faulty portrayals of Christ would have been exposed and thrown out before thousands were meticulously copied by the hands of those who could find no fault in them. Thus the Gospels being written at this early date would have gone under intense scrutiny and survived to convince thousands upon thousands of people to take them up as accurate and reliable historical books.”

    ” We may say with confidence that these Gospels have remained constant throughout their existence. The earliest piece of the Gospels we know of was likely written before 50 AD, which is from Scroll 7Q5 and contains parts of Mark 6:52-53 (Jeffrey 130). Another fragment of John chapter 18 exists that was written sometime between 100 AD and 150 AD (Strobel 61). There are 306 partial or full New Testament manuscripts dated at approximately 350 AD. There are 5,664 New Testament manuscripts in Greek written in the 9th century or later (63). In addition there are 8,000 to 10,000 Latin Vulgate manuscripts and a total of 8,000 manuscripts in Ethiopic, Slavic, and Armenian (63). The total number of ancient manuscripts in existence today comes to roughly 24,000. This number is unprecedented in all ancient literature. The way these manuscripts were copied was by hand in a process where errors could have easily occurred. Yet these copies were remarkably close and only few variances exist. Spelling or word order accounts for the great majority of these variances, which are inconsequential to the meaning of the passage (64). Clearly no major discrepancies have been observed within these manuscripts and therefore one may assuredly conclude that the message of the Gospels has not changed in any significant way whatsoever since they were written.”

    “Some scholars today insist that the Synoptics (Matthew, Mark, & Luke) were derived from a hypothetical collection of sayings of Jesus called ‘Q’ compiled by an unknown author in an unknown place at an unknown time. There is absolutely zero archaeological and historical evidence supporting this conclusion. It takes more faith to believe in this interpretation than that the Gospels were written as separate, agreeable, historical accounts written soon after the life of Jesus. Yet this theory is taught as fact in the Universities across the nation. There is no excuse for ignoring the solid evidence for the accuracy of the Gospels and teaching very questionable theories such as Q (as well as J,P,D,E for the Old Testament!) as facts without doubt in schools. There is little merit in teaching them at all.”

    Do the Writings of Ancient Historians Agree With the Gospels?

    “There is a good amount of ancient extra-Biblical writing that confirms or supports portions of the Gospels. I will briefly address a few of those writings here. I would first like to mention the acts of Jesus recorded in the Gospels. Is there any hint in these writings that Jesus was anyone other than a normal person with no supposed supernatural abilities? Josephus, a well respected Jewish historian, wrote this in his Antiquities of the Jews:”

    “Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day” (18.3.3).

    “This is an excellent support of the Gospels’ portrayal of Jesus from a devout Jewish historian. This passage is important in that it confirms that Jesus did exist, that Jesus was known as a doer of “wonderful works”, that Jesus was condemned to crucifixion under the reign of Pilate at the suggestion of principal Jews, that Jesus appeared to his disciples on the third day after his death, and that Christians were alive and well at the time of Josephus.”

    “There is a supernatural darkness mentioned in the passion narratives of the Synoptics (John left out the details of the crucifixion and therefore the darkness as well) as Christ was crucified on the cross (Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:44). This was for a long time thought to be an impossibility by the skeptics. Yet ancient historians have written about this as well. Julius Africanus alludes to a work of the historian Thallus who in 52 AD wrote a history of the eastern Mediterranean world since the Trojan War. Africanus wrote this “Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun … unreasonably, as it seems to me.” Paul Maier wrote this in his book Pontius Pilate (referring to the darkness at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus)”

    “This phenomenon, evidently, was visible in Rome, Athens, and other Mediterranean cities. According to Tertullian … it was a “cosmic” or “world event.” Phlegon, a Greek author from Caria writing a chronology soon after 137 AD, reported that in the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e. 33 AD) there was “the greatest eclipse of the sun” and that it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e. noon] (identical to Gospels claim of darkness during the sixth hour) so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.”

    “Clearly, these ancient historians add great credibility to believing in the events described in the Gospels especially those surrounding the death and resurrection of Christ.”

    Does Archaeology Support or Conflict with the Gospels?

    “Archaeology apart from the discovery of ancient manuscripts, which I have already discussed, is rather limited. In a sense it is a question and answer type affair. For instance one may ask “Is it reasonable that a census requiring families to return to their hometowns should be put into effect?” It is here that archaeology comes into effect. A certain Egyptian document details such a census in 104 AD. While this certainly does not prove the validity of this type of census in Israel, it enhances the validity of the Gospel story of the birth of Jesus. There are hundreds of such question and answer type challenges, yet the Gospels have checked out in every minor detail. There have been no disproving finds against the Gospels, in all cases archaeology has endorsed them as accurate historical books. This in itself is quite remarkable and enhances the validity of the books greatly. Simply spitting out all of the evidences, what they mean, and how they endorse the Gospels is not something I would particularly enjoy doing – if you want to read about them I recommend looking to other writers (you may check my bibliography for titles). I would, however like to briefly mention to the skeptics that the existence of Nazareth has been confirmed as well as the slaughter of children in Bethlehem as described in the Gospels (Strobel 102-105). These are two of the most recent and initially serious attacks against the Gospels.”

    “I would also like to mention what I believe to be the single most intriguing artifact that baffles scientists today. This artifact is the Shroud of Turin, which first was on recorded public display in Liley, France in 1357 (Jeffrey 114). This is apparently the burial cloth in which Jesus was buried in which is mentioned in all four Gospels (Matthew 27:59; Mark 16:46; Luke 23:53, 24:12; John 19:40, 20:5-7). The Shroud of Turin is a cloth that is fourteen feet, three inches long and three feet, seven inches long (pictures and a wealth of additional information on the shroud may be found here). On the cloth a yellowed image of a crucified man in the state of rigor mortis (which is a state that the body is in two to three days following death) bearing all the wounds (crown of thorns, flogged, speared side) that Christ suffered according to the Gospels. No one has as of yet determined what could have possibly caused the image (other than the supernatural act of resurrection), and no one has been able to duplicate the image even with sophisticated equipment. There are actual bloodstains on the cloth in addition to the yellow image. The image and the bloodstains combine to form a perfect picture of Jesus that is anatomically, medically, and physically perfect in its details. Although the image is somewhat difficult to see close up with the naked eye, it is vividly shown in photographic negative overviews. Scientists have spent thousands of hours studying this cloth, yet all they have come up with is that they don’t know how this image came to be today and much less how anyone in the fourteenth century or earlier could have forged it. Intricate details such as the pollen types and the tiny grains of dirt on the cloth indicate that it spent considerable time in the Middle East, specifically Jerusalem. The type of weave used to make the cloth was identified as from the first century. Faint, almost invisible to the naked eye, yet perfectly formed images of plants and herbs native to Israel (specifically from around Jerusalem and Jericho) have been found on the shroud which reinforces the probability that the shroud is genuinely from Israel. A 3D analyzer tested the cloth and results showed that there was absolutely no possibility it was painted. The image of coins apparently minted in honor of Pontius Pilate circa 32 AD were detected on the eyes, in accordance with first century tradition. The cloth was radiocarbon dated to be from 1260 AD to 1390 AD, yet scientists have thrown this dating out because of a bioplastic coating on the piece tested, carelessness in the actual dating process, and the likelihood that they tested a damaged piece of cloth. To sum up the argument for the cloth, no one has been able to scientifically explain its qualities. How anyone would have and employ more advance methods of creating such a forgery in the Middle Ages than we do now, and would go to such lengths as planting pollen and dirt in the cloth as to deceive scientists hundreds of years in the future is beyond me. I view this cloth as a striking evidence for the resurrection of Christ and accuracy of the Gospels. I don’t see how it could be a forgery. Even if I am somehow mistaken and it is, that still would not discredit the Gospels. I encourage you to research the subject for yourself and come to your own conclusion or accept mine as valid.”

    What Does this Mean to Me?

    “I believe that the evidence I have given here places the Gospels accurate beyond all reasonable doubt, but what now does this mean? Two things and I’ll keep it short. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” -John 3:16-18. Believe in Jesus, accept Him as your Savior. Place your faith in Him. Take Him at His word in His Gospels. You will receive eternal life. It is waiting if only you receive it. He has already paid for your sin with His own blood on the cross. He loves you. He died for you. Christ is the only way, [speaking] “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life: no man comes to the Father but through Me.” -John 14:6. Please think about these evidences. Search for the Truth, and you shall find it. Continue to think about what you’ve read. I urge you not to leave your seat until you know your eternal destiny is secure.”

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  55. Zoe February 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM #

    NON-BIBLICAL HOLIDAYS

    “Easter, Halloween, and Christmas observances are among the most commonly observed religious and secular holidays (a word perverted from Holy Days) that many people believe are a part of the worship system of the God; however, basic research into the origin of these holidays shows them to be unacceptable to God the Father and Jesus Christ.”

    “Anyone who wishes to worship the true God and his Son correctly should understand the seriousness of celebrating these religious and secular holidays, because their origin and practice involved fertility rites, sexual licentiousness, and the worship of false gods as the central focus of their celebration.”

    “God the Father and the Creator God (Jesus Christ) give this instruction to those who are serious about following their way of life and serving them:”

    “Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you” (Deut.6:14 NIV).

    “Be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, . . .” (Deut.12:30-31 NIV).

    “Do not learn the ways of the nations [heathens] . . .” (Jer.10:2 NIV).

    “Do not follow other gods to serve and worship them; . . .” (Jer.25:6 NIV).

    “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Heb.13:8 NIV).

    “The following study will review some of the more popular religious and secular holidays that are observed around the world by professing Christianity and show that these non-biblical observances are a violation of the law of God and should not be celebrated by the elect of God.”

    THE TRUTH ABOUT EASTER

    “Each year in the spring, masses of worshipers celebrate Easter. Around the world, Easter Sunrise Worship services are held on the tops of hills and mountains, while priests chant and utter incantations, devotees kneel and bow in worship towards the east as the sun crests the horizon.”

    “The places of worship overflow with people dressed in their new Easter clothes. Bells ring from cathedrals and stirring hymns fill the air to inspire and uplift the worshipers. Ministers and priests announce the resurrection of Jesus Christ with great acclaim and joy. And, after the religious rites are over, the children are treated to an Easter egg hunt.”

    “This is a description of a modern-day celebration of Easter. But, as strange as it may seem, a similar description applies to the Easter celebrations in Babylon over 4,000 years ago, in Asia Minor over 2,500 years ago, and in pagan Rome in 100 A.D..”

    “This paper presents several studies into the celebration of Easter, which prove that Easter originated from pagan worship of false gods, and it should not be observed by anyone who wishes to honor and worship God the Father.”

    Easter Eggs: Ancient and Modern

    “The origin of the Pasch [Easter] eggs is just as clear [as the origin of Easter]. The ancient druids bore an egg, as the sacred emblem of their order. In the Dionysiaca, or mysteries of Bacchus, as celebrated in Athens, one part of the nocturnal ceremony consisted in the consecration of an egg. The Hindu fables celebrate their mundane egg as of a golden color. The people of Japan make their sacred egg to have been brazen. In China, at this hour, dyed or painted eggs are used on sacred festivals, even as in this country [England]. In ancient times eggs were used in the religious rites of the Egyptians and the Greeks, and were hung up for mystic purposes in their temples. From Egypt these sacred eggs can be distinctly traced to the banks of the Euphrates. The classic poets are full of the fable of the mystic egg of the Babylonians.”

    “An egg of wondrous size is said to have fallen from heaven into the river Euphrates. The fishes rolled it to the bank, where the doves having settled upon it, and hatched it, out came Venus, who afterwards was called the Syrian Goddess—that is, Astarte. Hence the egg became one of the symbols of Astarte or Easter; and accordingly, in Cyprus, one of the chosen seats of the worship of Venus, or Astarte, the egg of wondrous size was represented on a grand scale.” (The Two Babylons, pp. 108-109).

    The True Origin of Easter

    “What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean [Babylonian] origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte [Isthar], one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven . . .” (The Two Babylons, p. 103).

    “The religious solemnities of April, as now practiced, are called by the name of Easter—that month, among our Pagan [British] ancestors, having been called Easter month. The festival, of which we read in Church history under the name of Easter, in the third or fourth centuries, was quite a different festival from that now observed in the Romish Church, and at that time was not known by any such name as Easter. It was called Pasch, or the Passover, and though not of Apostolic institution, was very early observed by many professing Christians; in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Christ” (ibid. p. 104).

    “The Passover was instituted by God when he brought the children of Israel out of Egypt. Moreover, one of the main reasons for killing the Egyptians’ firstborn children and animals was God’s judgment against the gods of the Egyptians:”

    “For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord” (Ex.12:12).

    “The God who went to those lengths to show his power and might over the gods of the Egyptians would never sanction the worship of him by the means of the pagan religious ceremonies or pagan holidays:”

    “That festival agreed originally with the time of the Jewish Passover, when Christ was crucified. . . that festival [of the Passover and feast of Unleavened Bread] was not idolatrous, and was preceded by no Lent . . .” (The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop, p. 104).

    “The forty days’ abstinence of Lent was directly borrowed from the worshipers of the Babylonian goddess [the queen of heaven]. Such a Lent of forty days, ‘in the spring of the year,’ is still observed by the Yezidis or Pagan Devil worshipers of Koordistan, who have inherited it from their early masters, the Babylonians” (Ibid., p. 104). Moreover, the pagan Mexican Baal sun-worshipers observed a solemn fast like Lent for forty days in honor of the sun beginning three days after the vernal equinox.”

    “Such a Lent of forty days was observed in Egypt . . . was held expressly in commemoration of Adonis or Osiris, the great mediatorial god. . . among the Pagans this Lent seems to have been an indispensable preliminary to the great annual festival in commemoration of the [supposed] death and resurrection of Tammuz [Babylonian name for Adonis or Osiris], which was celebrated by alternate weeping and rejoicing . . .” (Ibid., p. 105).

    The Death and Resurrection for Adonis—The Pagan Savior

    “The pagan counterfeit, which was inspired by Satan, has been substituted for the true Christian Passover and has been accepted as the authentic Christian observance. There are variations in the rituals from country to country, but the death on a Friday and a resurrection on Sunday is a consistent theme.”

    “We have seen that the rites of Tammuz or Adonis were commonly celebrated . . . In the gardens of Adonis are still sown in spring as well as in summer, from which we may perhaps infer that Sicily as well as Syria celebrated of old a vernal festival of the dead and risen god. At the approach of Easter, Sicilian women sow wheat, lentils, and canary seed in plates . . . the plants soon shoot up; the stalks are tied together with red ribbons, and the plates containing them are placed on the sepulchers which, with the effigies of the dead Christ, are made up in Catholic and Greek churches on Good Friday, just as the gardens of Adonis were placed on the grave for the dead Adonis.”

    “The practice is not confined to Sicily . . . The whole custom—the sepulchers as well as plates of sprouting grain—may be nothing but a continuation, under a different name, [the name of Jesus Christ], of the worship of Adonis” (The Golden Bough, p. 400).

    “During the whole of Good Friday a waxen effigy of the dead Christ is exposed to view in the middle of the Greek churches and is covered with fervent kisses by the thronging crowd, while the whole church rings with melancholy, monotonous dirges. Late in the evening, when it has grown quite dark, this waxen image is carried by the priests into the street on a bier . . .” (Ibid., p. 401).

    “This is followed by the ritual mourning by the whole town as the priests slowly carry the wax image, and a great multitude follows. Thus, the community solemnly buries its Christ as if he had just died. At last the waxen image is again deposited in the church, and the same lugubrious chants echo anew.”

    “These lamentations, accompanied by a strict fast, continue till midnight on Saturday. As the clock strikes twelve, the bishop appears and announces the glad tidings that ‘Christ is risen,’ to which the crowd replies, ‘He is risen indeed’ . . . in the same hour people plunge from the extremity of the fast into the enjoyment of the Easter lamb and neat wine'” (Ibid., p. 401).

    “This kind of vain and idolatrous mockery of the true death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is an example of how far paganism has penetrated Christianity. Only the names were changed, not the religion. Yet, this pagan, Christian, Babylonian religion with some variations has been embraced as the universal Christianity by the world—Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant. They all observe Easter, which was previously a pagan day of worship and celebration in commemoration of false gods. ”

    The Myth and Ritual of Attis

    “Another of those gods whose supposed death and resurrection struck such deep roots into the faith and ritual of Western Asia is Attis. He was to Phrygia what Adonis was to Syria . . . Attis was said to have been a fair young shepherd or herdsman beloved by Cybele, the Mother of the Gods, a great Asiatic goddess of fertility, who had her chief home in Phrygia. Some held that Attis was her son. His birth, like that of many other heroes, is said to have been miraculous” (Ibid., p. 407).

    “The mother and son pagan counterfeit religion along with its rites and worship system was deeply entrenched within ancient historical tradition as the established religion. People everywhere in the civilized world believed this was the way to worship God.”

    God’s Teachings Concerning Pagan Practices

    “Take heed to yourself that you be not snared by following them . . . and that you inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so I will do likewise. You shall not do to the Lord your God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hates, have they done to their gods . . .What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it” (Deut.12:30-32).

    “The New Testament God commands the Gentiles to REPENT, to turn from, and to renounce such paganism. When the apostle Paul and Barnabas preached to the Gentiles who practiced the religion of Diana, Adonis, Attis, and Jupiter, their message was not acceptance and union of these religions with true Christianity.”

    “Sirs, why do you these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach to you that you should turn from these vanities to the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past allowed the nations to walk in their own ways . . .And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to REPENT!” (Acts 14:15-16; 17:30).

    “The Bible shows that the New Testament church opposed the pagan religious practices and the blending of these pagan practices with the worship of the true God.”

    “But I say, the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons, and not to God: and I would not that you should have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. . .” (1 Cor.10:20-21).

    “God has never given his church any authority to accept and assimilate pagan religious practices as a means of worshiping him. Any person, organization, or church which does this, rejects the word of God and teaches doctrines that are contrary to the word of God. Therefore, anyone who teaches and preaches such practices is teaching a false savior, and a counterfeit Christianity.”

    Catholic Admissions and Practices

    “The Catholic church has always used its power and authority to enforce the acceptance of teachings that are contrary to the Biblical teachings.”

    “In like manner the Catholic Church has been accustomed to bring before its followers in a visible form the death and resurrection of the Redeemer . . . When we reflect how often the Church has skillfully contrived to plant the seeds of the new faith on the stock of paganism, we may surmise that the Easter celebration of the dead and risen Christ was grafted upon the similar celebration of the dead and risen Adonis . . .” (The Golden Bough, p. 401 The Golden Bough, Sir James George Frazer).

    “To conciliate the Pagans to nominal Christianity, Rome, pursuing its usual policy, took measures to get the Christian and Pagan festivals amalgamated, and, by a complicated but skillful adjustment of the calendar, it was found no difficult matter, in general, to get Paganism and Christianity—now far sunk in idolatry—in this as in so many other areas, to shake hands” (The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop, p. 105).

    “Taken altogether, the coincidences of the Christian with the heathen festivals are too close and too numerous to be accidental. They mark the compromise which the [Catholic] Church in the hour of its triumph was compelled to make with its vanquished yet still dangerous rivals. The inflexible Protestantism of the primitive missionaries, with their fiery denunciations of heathendom, had been exchanged for the supple policy, the easy tolerance, the comprehensive charity of shrewd ecclesiastics, who clearly perceived that if Christianity was to conquer the world it could do so only by relaxing the too rigid principles of its Founder, by widening a little the narrow gate which leads to salvation” (The Golden Bough, p. 419).

    “Granting the practice of pagan beliefs in direct opposition to the clear commandments of God has always been the policy of the Catholic Church.”

    “In the history of the Church we find that she often christened pagan festivals, making use of dates and ceremonies, and endowing them with an entirely new and Christian significance” (My Catholic Faith, p. 416, Louis LaRavoire Morrow).

    “Today the entire of Christendom celebrates Easter Sunday in memory of the Resurrection. It is the Feast of feasts . . . Easter is celebrated on the first Sunday following the first full moon of spring; the feast is moveable, and can fall between March 22 and April 25″ (Ibed., p.81).

    “This variance in the date of Easter was devised to more closely counterfeit the dates of the true Christian Passover and make it easier to replace the Passover with Easter. Also, the observance of the Passover ceremony, as commanded be Jesus Christ himself, was substituted with the Catholic holy eucharist (communion), which is of pagan derivation, by edict of the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.”

    “Attendance and taking of the Mass on Easter Sunday is obligatory for all Catholics. Even though the leaders of the Catholic Church have the Holy Bible and claim to teach it, they insist that “under pain of grievous sin” all are to observe this holiday. However, God Almighty commands Christians not to observe such feasts.”

    “We are obligated to receive Holy Communion during Easter time each year . . .The Church enforces this command by requiring us under pain of grievous sin to communicate [take communion] at least at Easter time” (My Catholic Faith, Louis LaRavoire Morrow, p.311).

    God’s Indictment and Condemnation of Pagan Practices

    “Throughout the Bible, God shows that he has never allowed his people to worship him by means of pagan ceremonies and rituals. In the Old Testament, the children of Israel cut themselves off from God whenever they left the true worship of God. Today, the same spiritual principle applies for the elect of God who are to worship God the Father in spirit and truth (Jn.4:23-24). If, as Jesus Christ commands, the elect of God worship him in spirit and truth and are sanctified by the truth, which is God’s word (Jn.15:16;17:17), why would God accept any pagan form of worship?”

    “The apostle Peter wrote to true Christians and strongly condemned pagan practices and false prophets:”

    “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were EYEWITNESSES of his majesty . . . But there were false prophets, also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious way; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of ” (2.Pet.1:16; 2:1-2).

    Like

  56. millertheanunnaki February 21, 2012 at 11:10 AM #

    @ Zoe | February 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM |:

    “Easter, Halloween, and Christmas observances are among the most commonly observed religious and secular holidays (a word perverted from Holy Days) that many people believe are a part of the worship system of the God; however, basic research into the origin of these holidays shows them to be unacceptable to God the Father and Jesus Christ.”
    “Anyone who wishes to worship the true God and his Son correctly should understand the seriousness of celebrating these religious and secular holidays, because their origin and practice involved fertility rites, sexual licentiousness, and the worship of false gods as the central focus of their celebration.”

    So Zoe, are you saying that that all of those so-called Christians in Barbados who go to church and observed these days are pagans and Satan worshipers?
    No long diatribe, please! Yes or No will do?

    Like

  57. millertheanunnaki February 21, 2012 at 5:29 PM #

    Zoe in the garden hiding , hiding, hiding from the Truth!
    Zoe where art thou?
    Come forth my dear Zoe, naked and all!
    Tell us if you believe that the vast majority of Bajan church-goers are pagans and devil worshipers?

    Like

  58. Zoe February 21, 2012 at 7:49 PM #

    Nnaki/Ralian, I DO NOT march/dance to your pythonated, REPTILIAN infested mindset beat; nor do I give YES/NO answers to extremely complex matters such as this, so GO and take a laxative which you obviously need, to digest that JACKASS you swallowed in your pythonated gut!

    Like

  59. Zoe February 21, 2012 at 8:39 PM #

    Almighty God, IS always looking at, and dealing with, the individual’s HEART, intent, desires, regarding Him, and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the historic, spiritual significance of Jesus’ substituionary, Atoning DEATH, which PAID the Holy, Righteous, PRICE for the forgiveness and Redemption of our SINS, Paid in full; AND His glorious Resurrection from the dead, for our Justification, declared NOT guilty!

    Therefore, only the Lord of ALL Glory, can judge the hearts of every individual, who celebrate His Crucifixon and Death, ( Good Friday) and His majestic, ALL conquering RESURRECTION from the dead, (Easter Sunday) as to whether they are sincerely, in deep and abiding honor and love for HIM* the King of ALL Glory, doing this with a pure and honest heart, and NOT in anyway, connecting this with any subtle Pagan festivals and celebrations, to utterly FALSE and deceptive Demonic deities, who NEVER existed in the first place, as was practiced IN ancient pagan religions.

    “Good Friday commemorates the crucifixion and death of Christ. Many churches conduct quiet services from noon until three (called Tre Ore, or “Three Hours”), focusing on the events of the crucifixion and the words of Christ from the cross. In some churches (most notably the Eastern Orthodox), the altar itself and the encased representation of Christ’s burial, called the epitaphion, are covered in black cloth. (Often the Eastern Orthodox churches do this on Holy Thursday instead.) Many Good Friday services conclude with draping the altar cross with black cloth, extinguishing all sanctuary lights (except the eternal flame signifying the Holy Spirit), ceasing all music, and having the congregation exit without speaking to symbolize the imminent (commemoration of the) death of Christ. Some churches refrain from communion until Resurrection Sunday, others don’t. As early as the second century A.D., Christians commonly celebrated each Friday in commemoration of the crucifixion, with fasting or other penance as its most notable feature.”

    Easter

    “Easter is an English corruption from the proto-Germanic root word meaning “to rise.” (We see this in the contemporary German cognate “öst-” and the English cognate “east,” the direction from which the sun rises in the morning.) It refers not only to Christ rising from the dead, but also to his ascension to heaven and to our future rising with him at his Second Coming for final judgment. It is not true that it derives from the pagan Germanic goddess Oestar or from the Babylonian goddess Ishtar — both fertility symbols signifying the coming of spring images of fertility, new life, and renewal. A corruption of Ishtar is found in the Bible as the name of the heroic Jewish woman, Esther, who risked her own life to save the lives of her people. Many Christians prefer to use the designation “the Resurrection of our Lord,” “Sunday of the Resurrection,” or even Pasch or Paschal Sunday (“the Sunday of our Passover Lamb Sacrifice”).”

    “The first Easter occurred on the first day of the week after the Passover Sabbath. The first day of the week became the Christian’s “sabbath rest” (Heb. 4:1-11), the time of weekly Christian celebration of the resurrection. Annually, the Lord’s Day immediately subsequent to the Jewish Passover was a day of special resurrection celebration. Today Easter is celebrated at different times depending on whether one is a Western Christian (Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican) or an Eastern Christian (Eastern Orthodoxy) because the West uses the revised Gregorian calendar and the East uses the older Julian calendar.”

    “Early Christians consulted local rabbis to determine the date of Passover each year, which would correspond to Holy Week. Passover was determined by the lunar configurations of the latitude in which the Jewish community resided. There was no Jewish authority at Jerusalem to determine a uniform date after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in A.D. 70. In communities with no Jewish presence, Christians found it even more difficult to determine the date. Once the churches became unified in the fourth century, the date was more consistent until the West’s adoption of the revised Gregorian calendar in the sixteenth century.”

    “Most of the popular associations with Easter come from pagan traditions rather than Christian. However, traditionally the church has taken these pagan elements and “converted” them to convey Christian principles. For example, the egg is a common pagan sign of fertility and good luck. In Christian tradition, the egg is often used as an analogy to the trinity, and to signify the resurrection life promised us by Christ’s resurrection (1 Cor. 15:37-38). Butterflies are indicators of spring, and therefore new life, but Christians often used the butterfly as a symbol of the resurrection. Just as the caterpillar “dies,” is “buried” in his cocoon, and then emerges in a “new body” somehow made from the old body and with “new life,” so Jesus died, was buried, and was resurrected and we who belong to Him will be also (Rom. 8:11). Hiding Easter eggs once symbolized the mysteries of the world of the gods and goddesses, who had to be coaxed into returning life to the earth in spring. Christians used hiding-and-finding as a teaching tool to children that we have been “hidden” from God’s loving presence by our sin, but we are “found” by Christ, who forgives us, loves us, and treasures us (Luke 15:4-7). It can also signify the diligence with which we are to seek the kingdom of God and our joy in finding it (Matt. 13:44-46). Lambs are fertility symbols and indicators of spring in paganism, but in Christianity we remember that we are His sheep (Ps. 23:1-2; John 10:1-16; Matt. 26:31-34; Acts 20:28) and He is our Shepherd (Is. 40:10-11; John 10:11-14; 2 Pet. 5:4; Heb. 13:20; Matt. 25:31-46). Additionally, Christ is the Passover Lamb (Ex. 12:5), the One sacrifice Who cleanses all from sin by His blood (Is. 53:7; John 1:29; Acts 8:32-25; 1 Pet. 1:19; Rev. 5:6-13; 7:13-14; 15:3).”

    “Historically, the celebration of Our Lord’s Resurrection is a time of joy, hymns, celebration, and light. Many churches use bright colors to decorate the sanctuary and the altar, traditionally white and gold. White represents purity and the resurrection, gold symbolizes triumph. Many churches add trumpets to their instrumental music on this day to signify the trumpet of victory after battle and the trumpet “calling” people out of death. Many people use flowers to signify resurrection life, the lily being the most popular because of its long association with spring and the white of salvation. (Confidence in the resurrection is also the historical significance of flowers, especially lilies, at funerals.) Some churches conclude their Easter services with a congregational feast, commemorating the marriage feast of God with His people made possible through Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Most churches repeat the proclamation taken from the gospels and standard from the early second century of the church:”

    He is Risen!
    He is Risen indeed! And coming soon again, IN* His Glorious Majesty and Omnipotent Power, for ALL to see!

    Like

  60. millertheanunnaki February 21, 2012 at 11:47 PM #

    @ Zoe | February 21, 2012 at 7:49 PM |
    Thanks for the medical advice. I have done just that so there is no crap in me.
    But your god knows everything in your forgiving heart, so be careful Christian fellow, you might end up like Saul on his way to Damascus blinded by the Sun.

    “Today Easter is celebrated at different times depending on whether one is a Western Christian (Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican) or an Eastern Christian (Eastern Orthodoxy) because the West uses the revised Gregorian calendar and the East uses the older Julian calendar.”

    Christians in Barbados celebrate Easter based on the cycle of the moon in relation to the Vernal Equinox; nothing to do with the actual day Jesus arose from the dead. It goes like this, Zoe: Easter must always fall on the first “SUNDAY” after the First Full Moon after the Vernal or Spring Equinox (March 20/21).
    So you check it for this coming Easter: First full Moon after March 20 is Friday April 6- same as Good Friday. So Easter MUST fall on the immediate next SUNDAY (Day of Mankind’s (pagan) God) on April 8. Check last year and the year before for some interesting extremes due to the lunar cycle.
    Gee, Zoe! So hardheaded, you are! It’s the SUN, stupid! It’s frying your brain cells!

    Like

  61. Zoe February 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM #

    Nnaki/Railian, et al idolatrous worshippers of Almighty God’s CREATED sun,

    “For since the CREATION of the world HIS invisible attributes are CLEARLY SEEN, being understood BY the things that are MADE, even HIS Eternal POWER and Godhead, so that they (Nnaki/Railian et al) are WITHOUT EXCUSE. Because, although they knew God, they did NOT glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became FUTILE ( empty, vain, perverted logic and IDOLATROUS presumption) in their thoughts, and their FOOLISH hearts were DARKENED.”

    “Professing to be wise, they became FOOLS.” (Rom. 1:20-22) Emphasis added.

    You are a FOOL Nnaki/Railian!

    Sun Worship

    “THE pre-eminence of the Sun, as the fountain-head of life and man’s well-being, must have rendered it at a date almost contemporaneous with the birth of the race, the chief object of man’s worship.”

    “It was,” says Karnes, 1 “of all the different objects of idolatry the most excusable, for upon the sun depend health, vigour, and cheerfulness, and during its retirement all is dark and disconsolate.” Hence, as we shall see, the chief masculine deity of every nation which was the chief object of their IDOLATROUS WORSHIP is in every case to be identified with the sun.”

    “The Abbé Banier wrote in like vein: 2 “Nothing was more capable of SEDUCING men than the Heavenly Bodies, and the sun especially. Its beauty, the bright splendour of his beams, the rapidity of his course, exultavit ut Gigus ad currendam viam,p. 142.”

    “Its regularity in enlightening the whole earth by turns, and in diffusing Light and Fertility all around, essential characters of the Divinity who is Himself the light and source of everything that exists, all these were but too capable of impressing the GROSS minds of men with a belief that there was no other god but the sun, and that this splendid luminary was the throne of the Divinity. god had fixed his habitation in the heavens, and they saw nothing that bore more marks of Divinity than the sun.” In the words of Diodorus Siculus: “Men in earlier times struck with the beauty of the Universe, with the splendour and regularity which everywhere were in evidence, made no doubt that there was some Divinity who therein presided, and they adored the sun as expressing the likeness of the Deity.”

    “The worship of the sun was inevitable, and its deification was the source of ALL IDOLATRY in every part of the world. It was sunrise that inspired the first prayers uttered by man, calling him to acts of devotion, bidding him raise an altar and kindle sacrificial flames.”

    “Before the Sun’s all-glorious shrine the first men knelt and raised their voices in praise and supplication, fully confirmed in the belief that their prayers were heard and answered.”

    Nothing proves so much the antiquity of solarp. 143
    idolatry as the care Moses took to prohibit it.

    “Take care,” said he to the Israelites, “lest when you lift up your eyes to Heaven and see the sun, the moon, and all the stars, you be SEDUCED and drawn away to pay worship and adoration to the CREATURES which the Lord your God has MADE for the service of all the nations under Heaven.”

    “Then we have the mention of Josiah taking away the horses that the king of Judah had given to the sun, and burning the chariot of the sun with fire. These references agree perfectly with the recognition in Palmyra of the Lord Sun, Baal Shemesh, and with the identification of the Assyrian Bel, and the Tyrian Baal with the sun.”

    Like

  62. millertheanunnaki February 22, 2012 at 9:19 AM #

    Zoe | February 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM |
    “You are a FOOL Nnaki/Railian!”

    You have not debunked my explanation about Easter and its astronomical determination. But ,be that as it may, if you know that your God made the SUN then who Made you god or gods?

    Yes go ahead and say that your god was always here and he made himself along wit his son Jesus (no females involved here).
    I can also argue that life on Earth exist only as long as the Sun (our source of light and life) is around.
    But we want to hear from you on other topics other than religious hogwash.
    Write about the extra-terrestrials permeating the Bible or the CLICO scam.

    Like

  63. Zoe February 22, 2012 at 12:25 PM #

    If God Created Everything, Who Created God?
    by Rich Deem

    IntroductionHow did God get here?

    “Richard Dawkins, among other atheists, thinks he has the ultimate proof that God doesn’t exist. If God created a complex universe, wouldn’t it take an even more complex entity to have created God? However, such logic assumes that time has always existed, rather than being merely a construct of this universe.”

    “Who created God? It is an age-old question that has plagued all those who like to think about the big questions. Having grown up as an agnostic non-Christian, it provided me with a potential reason why there might not be any god. Various religions tend to solve the problem in different ways. The LDS church (Mormonism) says that the God (Elohim) to whom we are accountable had a father god, then grew up on a planet as a man, and progressed to become a god himself. Many other religions have claimed that gods beget other gods. Of course the problem with this idea is how did the first god get here? This problem of infinite regression invalidates such religions. Christianity claims that God has always existed. Is this idea even possible? Does science address such issues?”

    “Christianity answers the question of who made God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:”

    “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1)

    “This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tell us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:”

    •No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
    •This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
    •The hope of eternal life, which God… promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
    •To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)

    “The idea that God created time, along with the physical universe, is not just some wacky modern Christian interpretation of the Bible. Justin Martyr, a second century Christian apologist, in his Hortatory Address to the Greeks, said that Plato got the idea that time was created along with the universe from Moses:

    “And from what source did Plato draw the information that time was created along with the heavens? For he wrote thus: ‘Time, accordingly, was created along with the heavens; in order that, coming into being together, they might also be together dissolved, if ever their dissolution should take place.’ Had he not learned this from the divine history of Moses?”1

    “God exists in timeless eternity. How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God’s creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason – so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.”

    “God exists in multiple dimensions of time. The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time’s arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.”

    “Why can’t the universe be eternal? The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn’t need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical “science” that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger “multiverse” that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters.2 Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute “god” for atheists. And, since this “god” is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam’s razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.”

    “What does science say about time? When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning – at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang).3 In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim – that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible’s claim that time began at the creation of the universe.”

    “Conclusion God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God’s plane of time). Hence God is ETERNAL, having NEVER been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

    Si Dios creó Todo, ¿Quién creó a Dios?

    ——————————————————————————–

    Related Pages •Why is There Something Instead of Nothing?
    •The Extradimensional Nature of God
    •The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning

    Like

  64. Zoe February 22, 2012 at 7:16 PM #

    The historic reality of the Jews, ‘Israel’ from way back in the OT, is awesome, no other ethnic group of people worldwide, have had such an unbroken sojourn of, of dispersion, captivity, judgment from God for rebellion and idolatry, AND the final regathering to their ancient home land ‘Israel’ yes, a miracle that occured May, 1948, exactly as the LORD GOD, Almighty promised He would do, surviving against ALL logical odds, from the very beginning of their modern statehood, until today!

    Modern Israel: Greatest miracle ever?
    Published: 2 days ago

    by Joseph Farah

    “If you believe the Bible, as I do, the return of Israel as a nation after 2,000 years is a greater miracle than all that occurred during the Exodus.”

    That’s what God says in Jeremiah 16:14-15:

    “Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;”

    “But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.”

    Think about that.

    “The reformation of the nation of Israel 64 years ago and the ingathering of dispersed Jews from all over the world is a greater miracle than all of the following:”

    •the parting of the Red Sea;
    •the manna from heaven;
    •the water from rocks;
    •the giving of the law on Sinai.

    “I don’t think most Christians and Jews in the 21st century fully appreciate what it means to be witnesses to such an awesome miracle.”

    “Sometimes when we read the Bible we scoff at the blindness of the ancient people to what was happening at the time. But I think we’re just as guilty as they were – if not more so.”

    “The miracle of the ingathering is greater than the miracles of the Exodus. That’s not what I say. That’s what the Lord says. And it’s a miracle we have been privileged to experience firsthand. But that privilege comes with a responsibility – a responsibility to recognize what God is doing and to get behind that mighty work.”

    “Don’t miss Farah’s brand new documentary based on the best-selling book “The Harbinger” — “The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment: Is There An Ancient Mystery That Foretells America’s Future>”

    “We have too many Christians in America today who don’t get that. They are not standing with the children of Israel, our brethren whose covenant we experience and share by virtue of bring grafted in, as Paul explains in the book of Romans.”

    “Christians who don’t appreciate their connection to this miracle are Christians who ultimately don’t appreciate the gift of salvation and the redemption offered to the whole world. They don’t fully appreciate who their Lord and Savior is – why He came and that He’s coming again!”

    They don’t appreciate where He’s coming.

    “He’s not coming to Washington, D.C., to rule the world. He’s coming to Jerusalem.”

    “When and why is He coming? He’s coming at a time when Israel is facing disaster, and He’s coming to save Israel.”

    “Replacement theology is not only a dangerous theology. It is a shallow one – one that tried to render most of the Bible as irrelevant and portray God as a covenant breaker who changes His mind and even His personality.”

    “But today much of the church is confused about who we are as believers and the rich biblical heritage that serves as the foundation for our faith and our hope.”

    “Some Christians aren’t sure our Savior is coming back at all – let alone that He’s coming back to Israel to save it and preserve it.”

    “Some Christians are confused about whether the modern miracle of Israel is truly a manifestation of prophecy at all.”

    “Some Christians even see more connection between their faith and Islam than they do between their faith and Judaism, even though Christianity makes no sense except in the context of the messianic promise from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”

    “It would behoove all of us as believers to read and study the rich and abundant scriptures dealing with the Second Coming, because I suspect there will be believers unprepared and caught unawares.”

    “Many people missed His first coming because they were looking for a conquering king. I suspect many Christians will not recognize the conquering king when He returns because they will be looking instead for the suffering servant.”

    What is Yeshua going to do when He returns?

    “The Bible tells us He’s going to mete out justice. His garments are going to be stained in blood. He’s going to destroy nations. He’s going to enforce His will with a rod of iron.”

    Are we prepared for that Yeshua?

    “He’s going to judge individuals and nations, as we learn in Matthew 25. The nations will be divided into sheep nations and goat nations largely on the basis of how they treated His precious Israel.”

    “He will bless those that bless thee and curse those that curse thee.”

    “Our Christian faith – and our very redemption – is constructed on a foundation of promise by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Without an understanding and appreciation of that connection, our faith doesn’t even make sense. Our savior did not just spring up spontaneously one day in Bethlehem 2,000 years ago without expectation. He came as the long-awaited Jewish messiah, the King of the Jews, out of the line of David, and He will eventually rule on David’s throne for 1,000 years in the future.”

    “By the way, He didn’t come to start a new religion called Christianity. He came to fulfill the law and the prophets and offer Jews and non-Jews alike salvation.”

    “If you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, you will also acknowledge that when He returns you and I and other believers are going to be keeping the Sabbath and observing the Feast of Tabernacles. We will be visiting Jerusalem regularly – and if we don’t we won’t get any rain. I think some Christians are going to be shocked at just how Israeli-centric our life will be in the millennial kingdom.”

    “How many Christians in America today really understand just how Jewish our Savior and our God really is? He won’t be eating ham sandwiches at the church potluck.”

    How many of us will recognize Him when He returns?

    Like

  65. David February 22, 2012 at 7:24 PM #

    @Zoe

    Don’t you think you would add value to this topic if you debunked/clarified issues raised in the video?

    Like

  66. Zoe February 22, 2012 at 7:40 PM #

    Nnaki/Railian, You got the CART before the HORSE, in this ill-perceived
    statement!

    “I can also argue that life on Earth exist only as long as the Sun (our source of light and life) is around.”

    Nnaki man, the SON of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, Created ALL things, and they ‘consist’ ARE HELD together in the entire Universe by HIM, including the Sun, whose function, as HE intended it, sustains life on earth, etc, etc, it IS* HIM* who sustains the functionalty of the SUN, as JESUS is the LIFE, and LIGHT of this world, NOT the SUN; if Jesus were to release HIS Omnipotent, consisting, SUSTAINING power over ALL created things the entire Universe and all life forms, would GO, PUFF!

    Jesus holds the SUN, that He CREATED, in the palm of His hand, like an ATOM!

    This, Nnaki/Railian, TOO TALL Fuh you to comprehend!

    Like

  67. Zoe February 22, 2012 at 8:23 PM #

    @ David, ask?

    “Don’t you think you would add value to this topic if you debunked/clarified issues raised in the video?”

    David, What exactly don’t you understand re, my post of Feb 20, @9:16PM, Feb 21 @ 8:16 AM, and Feb 21, @ 9:09 AM?

    That video is a bunch of nonsense, seeking to establish that these non-canonical ‘other’ gospels reveal other aspects of Jesus life and ministry while on earth.

    Both the interviewer and those pesudo-scholars he talked to, are certainly NOT Christians, they do not have a clue what they are representing?

    All of the spurious gospels were FRADULENTLY written LONG after the close of the 1st century, when the last genuine Book of the NT Canon was sealed on the Isle of Patmos, Jesus Revelation to the Apostle John.

    Secondly, ALL of these OTHER so-called gospels, though they DISHONESTLY purport to have been written by the names of Jesus Apostles, a LIE, they are ALL at direct varience with the sound doctrinal content of the 1st century Apostolic EYEWITNESSES, a terrible, wicked, contradiction to the doctrinal Truth, divinely Inspired by the Genuine, canonical Eyewitnesses.

    This nonse has been debuncked long ago by serious scholarship, this is nothing new; Satan has always tried from the beginning in Genesis, with Eve, to deceive, pervert, and corrupt the Truth of God’s Word.

    Like

  68. ac February 22, 2012 at 8:36 PM #

    WHO CREATED GOD! Man that is who created GOD! Look at how many times the bible has been rewritten and translated and who has anything to do with all this is MAN! First there was a “God fearing GOD’ then there is a caring GOD. Then there is a three headed GOD there there is only “ONE GOD” Who else could come up with such confusion in an attempt to define a “GOD”

    Like

  69. islandgal246 February 22, 2012 at 8:52 PM #

    AC…….. that is brilliant. If only people will open their eyes. Many prefer to be fooled and many know that they are being fooled but are afraid to admit it. LOLLL Good one there!

    People believe that everyone must accept the Bible’s definition of GOD. What they fail to understand is that we are all individuals and will define GOD differently. The quest for absolute power is total obedience and that is exactly how God men want their followers to be. Without that they will be NOTHING and NOBODIES!

    Like

  70. David February 23, 2012 at 6:43 AM #

    @Zoe

    The debate will continue long after we are gone.

    Like

  71. kiki March 7, 2012 at 4:19 PM #

    @ Zoe
    Jesus had Gods Spirit, Just like Moses had it for a while. The Spirit of God is in all his vessels.
    and they will sing

    Like

  72. harry March 7, 2012 at 6:00 PM #

    Like

  73. harry March 7, 2012 at 6:03 PM #

    you bajans helping your own people or it look like white men helping you again.and again. but you still got nuff long talk.
    watch the video above and you will see what your people in Africa do.
    any bajans helping????????????????????????/

    Like

  74. KIM. PAULETTA. A. SMITH July 17, 2013 at 4:17 PM #

    DEAR. HOSANNA. TENDER. MERCY. AND. GRACE. JESUS. ON. KIM. ANDREA. GERRETT. WITH. YOUR. SUPER. SUPER. SPECAIL. LOVE. FORGIVENESS. TOO BE. LIFTED. UP. AND. OUT. OF. ALL. POVERTY. AND. ALL BONDAGES. ALL THE. DUNGHILLS. AND. JESUS. GOD. SLAINED. ALL. THE. DRAGON. AND. ALL. THE. ENEMY. AND. ALL. SATAN. ENEMY. WE. ARE. TRUSTING. AND. BELIEVEING. IN. ALL. YOUR. WORDS. AND. PROMISES. OF. GOD. FAVAR. MANS. FAVAR. WE. THANK. YOU. LOVE. APPRECAITES. ALL THAT. YOU. HAVE. EVER. DONE. AND. WILL. EVER. DO. IN. THE. ALLPOWERFULL. ALLMIGHTY. ALLHOLYNESS. NAMES. OF. JESUS. THE KIBG. OF. ALL KINGS. AND. START. LIVEING. IN. PEACE. AT. PAID. IN. FULL. A. DREAM. HOME. AT. 7224. ARROWOOD. RD. BETHESFA. MD. GLORY. TOO. GOD. AMEN. AMEN .!!!!!!

    Like

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