The Bible And The Qur'an, Brothers Kept Apart

brotherskeptapartFellow blogger Weighed in the Balance has undertaken the ambitious and highly risky task of writing a book which as he terms it “is a comparative analysis of the Bible and the Qur’an, and it assumes that both books are correct.  If God is the principal author of each book, as Christians and Muslims claim, then a comparative analysis should reveal harmony between the principal teachings of both.  This is what I have found.  Hence, Christians and Muslims have been kept apart by their religious leaders who have taught their adherents that God has rejected the other group.” The topic matter was thought to be so contentious that he originally penned his book using a pseudonym.

Phillip’s book is titled Brothers Kept Apart and can be purchased on at a reasonable price. Some members of the BU family have already demonstrated that they are students of the religions. Brother Phillips advises that the book represents 30 years of research and 7 years of critical review and he stands ready to defend his thesis.

It is no secret that the BU household has demonstrated a keen interest in the religions or what some people disparagingly refer to as dogmas. It is a fascinating subject and one which is shrouded in mystery, allegories, parables, fables and some theology  Religion has been used through the ages to edify and destroy man’s existence. Of interest to all through the ages has been the cooption of  religion to pit Islam versus Christianity, East versus West by geo-political motivated groups.

For a synopsis of the book the BU family is welcomed to visit Phillips’s blog. We look forward to a fascinating discussion and take the opportunity to wish him every success.

What he has attempted demonstrates courage of conviction, a characteristic in scarce supply.


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No Comments on “The Bible And The Qur'an, Brothers Kept Apart”

  1. ROK May 19, 2009 at 4:59 AM #


    “What Genetic engineering what!?!”

    While I know that the Bible was doctored for a specific purpose, I also know that it contains information handed down from the Ancients.

    The clue to genetic modification is that God made Adam in “his own image” and then turned around and made Eve with materials from the man. That word “made” must be researched and studied some more because the logical meaning here is modify. “Let us modify man to look like us.”

    Go into the Hindu works and you will see how explicit it is and blaringly evident that God found man on earth and that man was a very loyal kind of creature; able to be domesticated. In those works, we see how man behaved; like a dog who protects his master from any perceived danger.

    Remember the words of the Bible, “Let us make man in our own image…” Examine that statement carefully… because it would seem that man was already in existence and when God said “let us” we get the plurality of the god. Who was he speaking to if not his colleagues.

    Maybe, “let us” is a collective decision, a resolve to make man like them. Just take a look at what we are doing. We discovered genetic modification the other day and we now apply it to everything, plants, animals, etc. God made man and the animals too. Remember that God killed all the “beast” of the earth to establish a habitat for man; maybe that included the entire dinosaur world. How long ago was that?

    Next thing. These people live in the same universe as we. Maybe a different technology but a different dimension? I know that we lost a lot of information, but as I said before, the Ancients were under no delusions as to who God was and is. They spoke of a war between the gods in the heavens. They knew that these Gods had power because they were more advanced than man and still are; 3500 years later, they must be far more superior than back then.


  2. ROK May 19, 2009 at 5:13 AM #

    The more I ponder on the Hindu writings, the more I realise that the Gods had to fight to gain control over man. Much like breaking in a horse so we could get on its back and ride.

    Man at that time was ig’rant. Like the bad men from the country in earlier times: simplistic, brute strength and not anyone to displease or anger.

    I have not dabbled with the works of the Hindus for a long time, but they have icons or characters in their faith that represents history for the most part. It seemed to be a way of using characters to chronicle profound historic facts.

    Most fascinating is the ape-like man who destroyed a whole city for his God. He burned it down singlehandedly. I wonder what that story is really saying, if not relating historical facts.


  3. ROK May 19, 2009 at 7:23 AM #

    Sorry Guys, I should do better than that. I have not looked at that Hindu material in decades. I will check it out and give better details.


  4. BAFBFP May 19, 2009 at 8:27 AM #

    Diane Ackerman (A Natural History of the Senses) speaks of the treatment of slaves by the Romans, taking exquisite pleasure in the misfortune of others, surrounding themselves with deformed people who were made to perform sexually or cabaret-style at parties. “Not all Romans were sadists, but numbers of the wealthy class and many of the emperors were, and they could own, torture, maltreat, or murder their slaves as much as they wished. At least one high-society Roman is recorded to have fattened his eels on the flesh of his slaves. Small wonder Christianity arose as a slave class movement, emphasizing self-denial, restraint, the poor inheriting the earth, a rich and free life after death, and the ultimate punishment of the luxury loving rich in the eternal tortures of hell. As Philippa Pullar observes in Consuming Passions, it was this ‘class-consciousness’ and a pride in poverty and simplicity the hatred of the body was born…. All agreeable sensations were damned, all harmonies of taste and smell, sound, sight and feel, the candidate for heaven must resist them all. Pleasure was synonymous with guilt; it was synonymous with hell… “

    Christianity, what a find for the Roman slave owners and so conveniently propagated by Colonialists for centuries; the right religion at the right time. The religion for slaves. Hmm..!


  5. rohan May 19, 2009 at 9:50 AM #

    Bush Tea so graciously wrote,
    your argument now needs to take the line of “but the art studio was not built by any builder”
    Bush Tea, if you stop there, you actually you just laid out your argument for the existence of God. He was not created by any creator, he just “is”.

    You and Zoe, with your advanced thinking ability, Find it impossible to believe that

    A) Humans could be here WITHOUT a creator,

    but you have no problems believing that

    B) God could be here WITHOUT a creator.

    Of course your well-developed minds (that God gave you of course) have to make a mental adjustment to explain the inconsistency.

    So you’ll say something like, “well the Great Engineer just is”, or “human minds can’t comprehend” or some other crap that you probably tell your children now if you have any.

    The difference between A) and B) is stark. For one, we have mountains of evidence, all the way to the DNA level. For the other we have the ramblings of ignorant men who thought that it was unclean to touch a woman on her period and that a snake could talk.

    And you try to clothe these ramblings in the garb of rational thought?

    Can a snake talk? Yes or no?

    You guys are a case study for the lasting effects of slavery. Your slave-owners brought their chains and their God but the chains could only be passed down so far. But their God was the perfect inter-generational gift. The gift that keeps on giving so to speak. I mean it’s to the point now where you even defend God’s instructions on slavery.

    This would be funny if it were not so disgusting.


  6. Bush Tea May 19, 2009 at 1:40 PM #

    Rohan, Rohan….

    Come on man, you are supposed to demonstrate that you are grown up.

    Do you see how Anonymous ASK questions to establish the other side BEFORE putting his arguments?
    …try that approach!

    When did Bush Tea say that God was not created? What has that to do with discussions on our world that BBE created? Stop grabbing at red herrings and stick to the point – or just bow out gracefully, before Zoe put some more lashes on you….LOL

    …Think about the art studio again….
    Is the FACT that someone conceptualized and created the studio predicated on how that someone them self was created? These are two different matters.

    OF COURSE BBE was created!
    In fact, if you has asked, I could have told you that the WHOLE reason for life on our earth is ultimately about the ONGOING CREATION of BBE.

    By the way. Are you really prepared to publicly argue on BU that you would have us believe that the art studio evolved by itself through natural selection? That it makes sense to you that such a complex art studio could come into existence WITHOUT the inputs of an intelligent designer and creator????

    ……think carefully before you answer Rohan, we would not wish to tarnish your reputation so far for intelligent debate…. ROTFL

    “This would be funny if it were not so disgusting.”
    what do you find disgusting? the shallowness of your position so far?


  7. Bush Tea May 19, 2009 at 1:58 PM #

    @ Anonymous
    “so the BBEs are outside of our dimensions. Presumably they have provided instructions to us.”
    Why would you automatically presume instructions Anon?
    First we may wish to understand the PURPOSE and objective that BBE have in mind for initiating the whole project.

    If we can comprehend that purpose, then many ‘strange’ rules will begin to make perfect sense….

    The same goes to the question of communication between BBE and humans. The degree and direction of communication will depend on the overall project objectives.

    So may I try a Rohan (LOL) and presume your next questions? namely –

    1-“From the perspective of the creator and originator, what is the purpose of the whole experience of life on earth?”

    2-How does this purpose relate to the day to day life of an individual living on earth?


  8. rohan May 19, 2009 at 2:54 PM #

    Okay Bush Tea, I took from your ramblings that you thought God was created. My simple question is:

    By whom?


  9. Georgie Porgie May 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM #

    @ BT
    From the perspective of the creator , the purpose of the whole experience of life on earth include………..

    Declare…..the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Discover…the truths of Scripture and their application for everyday living.
    Develop….mature disciples in pursuit of Christ-likeness.
    Deploy…..disciples into active ministry in the home, the church, the community and the world.
    Delight….in the Lord, knowing that our deepest pleasure is found in a lifestyle of worship.


  10. BAFBFP May 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM #


    The above was beautifully written, so much so that you almost had me roped and tied. Woo. I got over it though. That was close/ Ha ha


  11. Anonymous May 19, 2009 at 5:34 PM #


    Let me take up your challenge and comment on the Olivet Discourse and its relevance for today

    4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    I agree with verse 5, because they are many false teachers in the pulpit and on tv and on radio today who do not teach the Bible but only seek to get money for their lavish life styles. We have also had some cults whose leaders claimed to be Christ. So this prediction seems to be correct too.

    6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    Again it seems that all these predictions are even now being fulfilled. There has certainly been an ever increasing threat of wars and actual wars all over the world in the last 100 years or so. There has also been an increase in the number of famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the world as well.But I am not sure what the beginning of sorrows means, or who it refers to.

    9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
    I think that Jesus is referring to the Jews, from the context, as you would say, and because it is quite obvious to me that the Jews are hated as a nation by nearly all the nations .

    I am not sure what all this mean or that these warnings point to a soon coming of Christ though.


  12. Rohan May 19, 2009 at 7:02 PM #

    yup, Christ is coming soon…real soon.

    He’s just waiting for things to get a bit more messed up before he returns.

    But seriously, he’s on his way. Keep looking to the sky. Maybe you guys should get telescopes so you can get advanced warning when Jesus comes flying in.


  13. Zoe May 19, 2009 at 7:29 PM #

    The Problem of Evil in the world, is undoubtedly the greatest intellectual obstacle to belief in God; that is to say, it seems unbelievable, if an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God exist, that He would permit so much pain and suffering in the world.

    An enormous amount of philosophical analysis during the last quarter century or so has been poured into the problem of evil, which essentially must be distinguished between the ‘intellectual’ problem of evil, and the ’emotional’ problem of evil.

    The intellectual problem of evil concernes how to give rational explanation of the coexistence of God and evil. Whereas, the emotional problem of evil concerns how to comfort those who are suffering and how to dissolve the emotional dislike people have of God who would permit such evil. The intellectual problem lies in the province of the philosopher; the emotional problem lies in the province of the counselor.

    Understandbly, this problem of evil, has created an even further resentment for the Atheist/Agnostic, for God.

    For the believing Theists, more specifically, the Christian, we understand to some extent, why there is evil in the world, as some of the most tormented and persecuted people throught out history were/are God’s people beginning in the Old Testement era, and continuing into the New Testament and following on throughout church history, up unti this present day.

    It may well be the case that natural and moral evils are part of the means God uses to draw people into His Kingdom. A reading of a mission handbook such as Patrick Johnstone’s ‘Operations World’ reveals that IT IS precisely in countries that have endured severe hardship that Evangelical Christianity is growing at its greatest rates, while growth curves in the indulgent West are nearly flat. Consider, for example, the following reports:


    “It is estimated that 20 million Chinese lost their lives during Mao’s Cultural Revolution. Christians stood firm in what was probably the most widespread and harsh persecution of the Church has ever experienced. The persecution purified and indigenized the Church. Since 1977 the growth of the Church in China has NO parallels in history. Researchers estimate that there were 30 to 75 million Christians by 1990. Mao Zedong unwittingly became the greatest evangelist in hiatory.”

    El Salvador:

    “The 12-year civil war, earthquakes, and the collapse of the price of coffee, the nations’s main export, improvished the nation. Over 80% live in dire poverty. An astonishing spiritual harvest has been gathered from all strata of society in the midst of the hate and bitterness of war. In 1960 Evangelicals were 2% of the population, but today are around 20%.”


    “Ethiopia is in a state of shock. Her population struggles with the trauma of millions of deaths through repression, famine, and war. Two great waves of violent persecution refined and purified the Church, but there were many martyrs. There have been millions coming to Christ. Protestants were fewer than 0.8% of the population in 1960, but by 1990 this may have become 13% of the population.”

    Examples such as these could be multiplied. The history of mankind has been a history of suffering and war. Yet, it has also been a history of the advance of the Kingdom of God, in, by, and through The Lord Jesus Christ.

    The fact of the matter is, we are living in the time of the largest ingathering of people around the world, coming to Jesus Christ for salvation, that the world has ever seen. It is not at all improbable, that this astonishing growth in the ‘Church’ God’s Kingdom, is due in part to the presence of natural and moral evils in the world.

    Secondly, and unmistakably, mankind is IN a state of rebellion against God and His purpose. Rather than submit to and worship God, which brings true liberty and freedom for mans parched soul; people rebel against God and go their own way and so find themselves, by volitional choice, alienated from God, morally guilty before Him, groping in spiritual darkness and pursuing ‘false’ gods of their own making.

    The terrible human evils in the world, are testimony to man’s depravity in our state of spiritual alienation from God, our Creator. Moreover, there is a realm of beings higher than man, also in rebellion against God, demonic creatures, incredibly evil, in whose power the creation lies, and who seek to destroy God’s work and thwart His purposes. Christian are, therefore, not suprised at the moral evil in the world; on the contrary, we expect it! The scriptures indicate that God has given over to the sin it has freely chosen; He does NOT interfere to stop it, but lets human depravity run its course (Romans 1: 24, 26, 28). This only serves to heighten mankind’s moral responsibility before God, as well as our wickedness and our need of forgiveness and moral cleansing.

    Therefore, when God ask His childen to bear horrible suffering in this life, it is only with the prospect of a heavenly joy and recompense that is beyond all comprehension!

    The Apostle Paul, underwent a life of incredible suffering which included both natural and moral evils. His life as an apostle was a life punctuated by “afflictions, hardships, calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger” ( 2 Cor. 6: 4-5) Yet he wrote:

    “So we do not lose heart…For this slight affliction is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory BEYOND all comparison, because we look not to the things that are seen, but to the things that are not seen; for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal” ( 2 Cor 4: 16-18).

    Paul lived this life in the perspective of eternity. He understood that the length of this earthly life, being finite, is literally infinitesimal in comparasion with the eternal life, given to us by God, through Jesus Christ.

    Jesus Christ endured a suffering beyond all understanding; He bore the punishment for the sins of the whole world. None of us can comprehend the suffering He endured on our behalf. Though He was completely innocent, He voluntarily underwent incomprehensible suffering for us. Why? Because He loves us so much. How can we reject Him, who gave up everything for us?

    When we begin to comprehend His sacrifice and His love for us, this puts the problems of evil in an entirely different perspective. For now we see clearly that the true problewn of evil, is the problem of ‘our’ evil. Filled with sin and morally guilty before Almighty God, the question we face is not how God can justify Himself to us, but how we can be justified before Him.

    When God ask us to undergo suffering that seems unmerited, pointless and unnecessary, mediation on the Cross of Christ is the only way to help us with the moral stength and courage needed to bear the cross that we are asked to carry. So, paradoxically, even though the problem of evil is the greatest objection to the existence of God, at the end of the day, God IS the only solution to the problem of evil. If God does not exist, then we are locked without hope in a world filled with gratuitous and unredeemed suffering. Almighty God, in Christ Jesus, is the only and final answer to the problem of evil, for He alone, redeems us from SIN, (evil) and takes us into the everlasting joy of incommensurable good, and eternal fellowship with Himself!


  14. Bush Tea May 19, 2009 at 7:34 PM #

    Okay Bush Tea, I took from your ramblings that you thought God was created. My simple question is:

    By whom?
    Rohan!! Can you ever rise above red herrings? ..any chance of you raising the level of discussion?

    Did I not just explain to you that the question of who created BBE is not important or relevant to the current moot?

    …any child would know that when I explain to you who created BBE you will simply ask who created THAT entity -and get back to your red herring logic.

    …we are in the art studio, we have just agreed to refer to who-ever-it-was-that-created the studio as “builder” – and your main question is who built the builder?!?!

    Let us put some flesh and bones and personality on BBE first and then it will become clearer how BBE’s creation is achieved.

    @ GP
    Would you not be HUGELY disappointed if the REASONS that THE ORIGINAL CREATOR -God created everything that we know, were those 5 D’s that you listed?

    You really think that BBE is ‘hard up’ for acknowledgment and praise from us?

    ….I have to tell you that those D’s are not even in the same ballpark as the earth shattering reason……


  15. Hopi May 19, 2009 at 7:46 PM #

    @Zoe….”The history of mankind has been a history of suffering and war. Yet, it has also been a history of the advance of the Kingdom of God, in, by, and through The Lord Jesus Christ.” You are a damn liar. The only reason for suffering and war is to imposed Jesus Christ on people who lived peaceful lives long before him and to rob and pillage smart non-christians of the wonderful resources, knowledge and wisdom that they have been blessed with by their own Gods. The christians brought the war and suffering. So stop lying!


  16. Zoe May 19, 2009 at 7:53 PM #

    No Rohan, no telescopes will be needed or required, for when The King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords, none other than The Lord Jesus Christ makes His Second, Glorious appearence,

    “BEHOLD, He IS coming with clouds, and EVERY EYE, will SEE HIM, even those who pierced Him. And ALL tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.”

    “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end,” says the Lord, “who IS and who WAS and who IS TO COME, the Almighty.” (Rev. 1:7,8) emphasis added.


  17. Georgie Porgie May 19, 2009 at 8:06 PM #

    Whereas I do believe that the 5 D’s are some of the reasons that the Bible presents as reasons for believers to be on earth, and whereas I also believe that we can present several Scripture texts that declare that God expects our worship, I would not mind listening to your earth shattering reason……


    Whereas we do not know the exact day or the hour at which the rapture it is indeed very clear that it cannot be far off. Those of us who believe that the rapture will precede the tribulation period (and I can give you 50 reasons why we believe thus) know from a right division of the Word that several of the signs given in the Olivet Discourse that will be evident as the tribulation period approaches are clearly very discernable. Since the rapture occurs seven years before the tribulation ends, at which time the Scripture declares that Jesus will appear in his glorious appearing, it is very clear to us that Jesus is coming very soon.

    The daily news seems to corroborate our conclusions every day, as the events of the day matches with what the Word has predicted.


  18. Bush Tea May 19, 2009 at 9:25 PM #

    @ Rohan and Not Saved

    ..the following is intended for GP, MME and those fellows.
    As a background; It is important for us to move away from the (natural) perspective that Earth (and especially mankind) is the center of everything.

    Absolute REALITY is actually very different to our human perspective. This reality is centered in a different realm (dimension) where neither time, space or entropy exists.

    The beings that were responsible for the creation of our world exists in this realm.

    When our world was created, it was done in a way which ‘reflects’ the real reality.

    So man was made ‘in the image’ of his maker;
    We were given ‘life’ which we pass on to new generations through procreation;
    We were allowed to ‘rule’ the earth (like gods)…etc etc

    Everything that exists, which possesses the characteristic called ‘life’, reproduces itself….. It seems logical therefore that the very source of life (on which life on earth is modeled), itself (BBE) also reproduce.

    Unfortunately, there is one needed characteristic which cannot be ‘created’ instantly.

    Character can only be molded in the cruel crucible of experience.

    Create a temporary project, limited in time and space, with temporary beings made in BBE’s image. Create the crucible conditions required; TAKE A GENERAL HANDS OFF APPROACH;
    ie -create our world.

    … now select those who are able to develop the righteous character that is required to complete the process of procreation into the BBE family.

    Of course it is a bit more complicated than this, but that is the nutshell….

    Life on earth is a vital part of the complex process of procreation of God the creators.
    Human beings therefore have the potential and opportunity, to grow in character to the level required to qualify to be ‘born’ into the spiritual dimension of BBE…. to literally BECOME GOD.
    ,,,,this is the good news (gospel) that Jesus espoused.


  19. Rohan May 19, 2009 at 10:46 PM #

    Rohan!! Can you ever rise above red herrings? ..any chance of you raising the level of discussion?

    Did I not just explain to you that the question of who created BBE is not important or relevant to the current moot?
    Bush Tea,
    Who died and made you in charge of what is relevant or irrelevant to a discussion? I asked you a question to expose the inconsistency and illogical thinking you employ.

    Do you even know what “red herring” means?

    “A deliberate attempt to change the subject”.

    Sounds more like what you’re doing. I can answer any question you ask, I don’t have to dodge or dance.

    You on the other hand….


  20. Rohan May 19, 2009 at 10:55 PM #

    Bush Tea,
    I mean, how does it feel to believe in such ridiculous crap with no evidence AT ALL and do so with the arrogance of someone who has sound reasoning and logic on their side?

    Where do believers get this from? I mean to believe in angels, and devils, and afterlives, and walking on water, and eating crackers for flesh and wine for blood, and a host of other b.s and then you talk to a rational person like if you know something that the rest of us don’t know.

    You’re no different than the muslims who believe in 72 virgins, or the hindu reincarnations or the million other stories out there that are believe by feeble, gullible people.

    Yet you have the nerve to tell me what is relevant or not relevant to a discussion on your fairy tale?

    Run along and kneel to the God your slave-owners brought you.


  21. Bush Tea May 19, 2009 at 11:02 PM #

    Cool Rohan.

    ..when you finally do grow up. BU will still be here…

    BT out.


  22. Straight talk May 20, 2009 at 6:09 AM #

    Psst…. Don’t tell Zoe but


  23. Micro Mock Engineer May 20, 2009 at 6:24 AM #

    “The only reason for suffering and war is to imposed Jesus Christ on people who lived peaceful lives long before him… The christians brought the war and suffering.”


    [níg]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti ì-ù-tu



  24. Zoe May 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM #

    Bush Tea, Man, this so-called spiritual concept of yours, where we can ‘…literally BECOME GOD…this is the good news (gospel) that Jesus espoused.”

    This most certainly IS NOT what the good news of the Gospel teaches, and is a is emphatically NOT what Jesus espoused!!!

    This unbiblical heresy comes from perverted god concept of the Mormons, and the so-called ‘revelations’ of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the succeding Mormon ‘prophets.” which are diametrically opposed to the Divine revelations of God’s Word, the Scriptures.


  25. Hopi May 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM #

    Looks like you went fishing deep and dregged up scraps! Since the advent of the ….. man’s christianity there has been NO peace on this planet. NONE. And you say that Christ is the Prince of Peace!

    In the name of Jesus Christ lets start with the over 600 000 0000 Blacks (heathens) from the motherland. During the ‘Great’ Atlantic Slave Trade.

    How about Germany’s invasion of Namibia.

    How about Mussolini’s invasion of Ethiopia.


    The British

    The United Snakes of AmeriKKKa, almost wiped out the Natives, over 1 mil Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, Africans, Vietnamese and this is only yesterday.

    I think its time you got up off that floor, because the floor is not the place for a good christian like you. You might end up in hades with ‘us, the un-godly.’

    [nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti `i-`u-tu……tu



  26. Hopi May 20, 2009 at 9:21 AM #

    BU…..Pls correct. 1 too many zeros on that 60o mil. (Talk about giving the devil his dues).

    Thank you!


  27. BAFBFP May 20, 2009 at 5:56 PM #

    Uh… What does all this mean?
    [nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti `i-`u-tu……tu


  28. Anonymous May 20, 2009 at 6:29 PM #

    This thread has got to be the new all time record holder for comments posted!


  29. Georgie Porgie May 20, 2009 at 6:54 PM #

    @ BT

    I believe Genesis 1:1 that God created the heavens and the earth, and that man was made ‘in the image’ of his maker, God.
    I agree with you that we were given ‘life’ which we pass on to new generations through procreation, and that we were expected to ‘rule’ the earth (like gods)…etc
    I agree with you that everything that exists, which possesses the characteristic called ‘life’, reproduces itself… stated in several verses in Genesis 1 in the words “after its kind.” I believe that this phrase is reasonably explained by DNA.

    I agree with you also that character can only be molded in the cruel crucible of experience. Believers are expected to suffer as they endure testing as taught in James 1:12, 1 Peter, Philippians and several NT texts.

    I agree with you also that as character is molded in the cruel crucible of experience. That God often seems to take a general hands of approach.

    He is often blamed for this as men mess up things themselves. The current state of the world economy is to blamed on whom?

    I agree with you also as you allude to the doctrine of election and predestination- which is difficult to grasp or explain.

    We part company when you opine that “ Human beings therefore have the potential and opportunity, to grow in character to the level required to qualify to be ‘born’ into the spiritual dimension of BBE…. to literally BECOME GOD.” And that “,,,,this is the good news (gospel) that Jesus espoused.”

    The tenets of the gospel are clearly set out in 1 Corinthians 15; 1-4
    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


  30. Bush Tea May 20, 2009 at 7:57 PM #

    @ Zoe and GP

    Gentlemen, please understand that I fully respect your convictions. I even understand your focus on defending the established tenets of your faith.

    I also have great respect for your knowledge of the bible… makes me feel inadequate LOL.

    Now tell me this GP. What did Jesus mean when he said that he was the firstborn of ‘many brethren’?
    …and can you count how many times the word says to the elect that ‘ye shall become the sons of God’?

    I put it to you gentlemen, that the MOST COMMON theme throughout the new testament is related to mankind’s potential to be ‘born again’, ‘born of the spirit’ and to become ‘sons of God’.

    Unfortunately, your faith has allowed some religious jokers from the middle ages (who fit snugly into the profile espoused by Rohan); to promote a theology built around a so called ‘trinity’. This promotes the wicked concept of a CLOSED SHOP GOD who egotistically created mankind as a kind of plaything and pet.

    So, while the bible commonly refers to man ‘becoming sons of God’, I challenge any of you to show me two places where it speaks of any ‘trinity’ or Godhead, or closed shop among BBE.

    Can you imagine the potential? that a mere humble man can become a member of the family of BBE? … in much the same way that a lowly sperm struggling among millions of desperate kin has the glorious POTENTIAL to one day become the son of the micro mock engineer (mankind, not THE MME LOL) who created those millions of sperm in partnership with his wife (the church).

    Unlike Rohan, …I have no no doubt that you gentlemen can see the parallels between the physical and spiritual in this analogy.


  31. Straight talk May 20, 2009 at 8:39 PM #

    Heh Bush Tea I am giving all of you faith believers the benefit of my considerable doubt, but you keep coming up short with your doomsday promises.

    And as such I have to class you with the Jim Jones’ school 0f popular mind control.

    I cannot discern Revelation’s predictions now any more relevant than I should have during the holocaust.

    Am I missing something, or just being too empirical for my own salvation.

    Either way, I’ve lived my life to the full, my family have a sounder base than I ever had to venture out.

    I am ready to meet my maker face-on on equal terms, or rot like a deflated cane toad in some man made coffin.

    No matter which, life goes on and the miniscule “I” will be very shortly despatched only to the memories of my nearesr and dearest.

    I leave the alternatives to my more optimistic and learned friends.


  32. Bush Tea May 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM #

    Don’t feel any way ST.
    The vast majority of people fit snugly into your profile.

    That family of which you so fondly speak, resulted from a process involving you and your wife, where millions (zillions if you are the kind of person I think you are -LOL) of sperm lived short lifespans in difficult circumstances, after you initiated that pleasant process.

    I suspect that only 2 or so of these potential ‘sons of ST’ actually made it the full way. Hundreds of millions ‘met their maker’ ignorant of their real potential…..

    Does that ‘sad’ fact detract from the great joy of the two who were born into your family?

    If you are happy to be among the 999,999,998 who did not even know what they missed, PLEASE do not hold it against BT if I want to complete the race….. forgive my excessive ambition.


  33. Anonymous May 20, 2009 at 9:56 PM #

    Bush tea

    “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” – Romans 3:23. While we may forgive your excessive ambition, the probability of success in your endeavors is zero unless …. (GP or Zoe fill in the rest)!


  34. Bush Tea May 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM #

    If you think that Bush Tea does not know about the futility (of even any hope) of completing the race without the needed spiritual DNA …. i sorry for you LOL.

    …but for the purpose of explanation it is not helpful to jump all over the place.

    ….We need for GP and Zoe to help us to settle the basic concept before we explore such details as rules for success.


    …by the way Anon, you remind me of MME. ….someone who knows a lot of draft but who screeching….. LOL


  35. Anonymous May 20, 2009 at 10:30 PM #

    Re the rules for success: You are going to wait for the poui to flower and then drop the draft …by then it will be too late!


  36. Bush Tea May 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM #

    What too late what?!?

    Hermit, that is exam time! ….the best time to drop draft…


  37. Georgie Porgie May 20, 2009 at 11:24 PM #


    First let me say that the phrase ‘trinity’ or Godhead does NOT occur in the Bible. However, the concept is referred to repeatedly

    Secondly The concept of the need for or the reality of spiritual DNA is of course alluded to in I John 3:9 where we read “ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” The word seed is “sperma” with all its implications including especially spiritual DNA

    Thirdly Re Now tell me this GP. What did Jesus mean when he said that he was the firstborn of ‘many brethren’?

    Romans 8:29 says
    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    This verse indicates that believers will be conformed to the image of His own Son, and explains God’s dealings with them as His chosen sons in this present age. He is ever at
    work to reproduce the moral image of Christ in them. All that now comes into their lives He uses for their good to further that glorious goal. His aim for them now is not to
    make them happy, materially prosperous, or famous, but to make them Christlike. He now uses ‘all things,’ the sad as well as the glad, the painful as well as the pleasant, the
    things that perplex and disappoint as well as the things they eagerly strive and pray for, to further His eternal purpose for them. In His infinite wisdom He knows what is needed
    to bring about that transformation. For some of His own He may need to use hotter fire and strike with harder blows than in His dealings with others to effect the formation of
    Christ’s image in them. This may be because some believers may be more resistant to His moulding activities or are more prone to insist on their own efforts. The Son became as we are (v. 3) so that we could become as He is. In thisrespect we are brothers of Jesus Christ. That is the clear teaching of Romans 8:18

    I think that we both agree on the above concepts.

    The term “First-born” is, however, a technical term and always refers to Jesus Christ’s
    relation to resurrection (cf. Col. 1:15), the event that inaugurated His entrance into the glorified state that we will share with Him eventually. “This distinctive designation of Jesus Christ expresses His position of priority to and preeminence over all the other
    members of the family.

    Believers are called sons of God in 1 John 1:12 and I John 3:2. In both cases the word used is TEKNON which ought to be translated children, as John always uses this word, as he seeks to stress the family relationship. John only ever used the Word HUIOS for son to describe JESUS only. John considers that Jesus is the ONLY or UNIQUE son. Only Jesus is accurately called son in the NT, because only Jesus became man in the way that he did.

    I don’t agree that to be ‘born again’ or born of the spirit or born out from above is the most common theme, as this concept is mentioned only twice! Cf John 3: 3 & 5
    What is a more common theme, but still not the commonest theme is the concept of the “adoption of sons” and the concept of “perfection (9 times in Hebrews) or practical salvation, or working OUT one’s salvation c.f Phil 2:12. I think that this is the concept t which you are referring.

    Sonship (huiosthesia) which is a popular concept raised in the Pauline epistles refers to the placing of a believer as an adult son.

    The doctrine of the adoption of sons refers to the fact that we have been declared in Romans 8:18 as joint heirs of Christ. Again not because of our own merit, but because the exalted Christ has exalted us to this position.

    The word adoption in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word (huiothesia) which means “the placing of an adult son” and refers to the formal act of recognizing the maturity of an adult son. The word is found in five New Testament passages: Rom. 8:15,23: 9:4; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5.

    The believer is also called (teknon), a child which is growing up but which is still under parental care. Hence John 1:12, “…to them gave He power to become the sons (teknoi) of God.”—should strictly be children.

    But a Christian is also in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is called (huios), “an adult son”. So, in union with Him, we are said to be adult sons also, although we may be babies (brephos) or (teknon) by experience.

    To the people living in the predominantly Greek and Roman culture of the 1st Century A.D., the word (huiothesia) would bring to mind the ceremony of toga virilis, in which a 14-year-old boy went through an investiture ceremony with the adult male members of his family. At this ceremony, speeches of challenge to the youth would be made, and offerings would be made to the gods. Then, the boy would stand in the center of the group and take off the child’s garment that he wore. A new adult man’s robe, or toga, would be placed on him. This was the toga virilis, the “robe of a man”.

    At this time, the 14-year-old was given adult privileges and responsibilities. He could conduct business in his own name, could buy and sell property, could marry, could vote in the Assembly, and in many other ways could carry on as an adult citizen. Of course, he was not mature enough or wise enough to exercise all of the privileges he had; and he was not experiences enough to live up to all of the responsibilities. But the seriousness of his position as a citizen was impressed on him; and if he was intelligent and hard working, he would grow up to be an adult having integrity and character.

    Application: The spiritual use of the word “adoption” signifies the placing of a newborn child, in the spiritual sense, into the position of privilege and responsibility attached to an adult son. The question arises as to why a naturally born child needs to be adopted. Are we not, after all, “born again”? It is here that the true meaning of “adoption” comes in; because in the New Testament, “adoption” refers to a positional advance. The new believer is advanced positionally to his majority, even though at the time of salvation he is spiritually immature, a “babe in Christ”.

    Because spiritual adoption takes place at the moment of salvation, there is really no period of childhood experience recognized for believers. The Christian has been placed into the privilege, liberty, and duty of a full-grown adult. Spiritual adoption imposes the same way of life on all children of God. This requirement is reasonable because the Christian life is to be lived in the sustaining and upholding power of the Holy Spirit. And this provision is available as much for one person as for another.

    Therefore, the word “adoption” means that from the very first of our Christian lives we have full provision, the freedom to have a relationship with God on an adult basis, the freedom to serve Him. Full-time Christian service is nothing more than the freedom to have a relationship with God.

    There is also a future aspect to “adoption”, that of our ultimate placing as adults in eternity, as shown in Romans 8:23. There we will have the resurrection body, we will see Christ face to face, and we will have no Sin Nature or human good. So we will be able to function perfectly in Christ, as adults in maturity.


  38. Rohan May 21, 2009 at 12:33 AM #

    “I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own — a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.” [Einstein]


  39. Georgie Porgie May 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM #

    You are best at posting obscure texts out of thier context. Perhaps you should stick to that. No one really cares about Einstein’s religious thoughts.


  40. Bush Tea May 21, 2009 at 1:35 PM #

    Well said GP.

    Who exactly cares what Einstein thought apart from his narrow scientific area of expertise at the time?

    As it is, what Einstein knew then pales into insignificance when compared to what current scholars now know….even in his area of expertise.
    …give us a break Rohan…

    Now GP,
    After your scholarly and well researched response above, you mean that you dispute my conclusion that Jesus interpreted ‘salvation’ to mean being born of the spirit after a successful earthly life and thus becoming one of the children of God?

    Man GP this is EXACTLY what he told Nicodemus in response to a direct question.


  41. ROK May 21, 2009 at 1:46 PM #

    “mankind’s potential to be ‘born again’, ‘born of the spirit’ and to become ‘sons of God’.”

    Where you really going with this nonsense? That is about genetics and the only born again was in reference to mankind as a stock. Don’t think that anybody on earth can be born again; it would have to be by genetic modification.

    And this foolishness about the holy spirit; It used to be the HOLY GHOST. That is how we take this thing and make a mockery of it.


  42. Georgie Porgie May 21, 2009 at 1:56 PM #

    NO. I do not dispute your position that Jesus informed Nicodemus in John 3:3 & 5 that he needed to be born again (or out from above by the Spirit) at all! I agree with that part.

    Where we disagree is that I believe such birth begins the Christian life. One immediately becomes a TEKNON and enjoys the adoption of sons simultaeously. This is also called JUSTIFICATION or POSITIONAL SANCTIFICATION. You become adopted as a son with all of its attendant benefits and blessings.

    Then as you pointed in your point about spiritual DNA, John teaches in 1 John 3:9 that since you have the Father’s GENES or GENOTYPE, you are now supposed to express the PHENOTYPE that goes with those genes. So one works at being a son, or expressing the fact that one is a son by thier lifestyles and in response to trials and suffering and other features of what you call the “crucible experience.”This is called PRACTICAL SANCTIFICATION

    We seem to differ on the TIMING of recieving ones sonship. Perhaps you are stressing the final end of one’s sanctification when one enters into eternal joy as taught in Romans 8 or PERMANENT or PERFECT SANCTIFICATION.

    I am not sure if you are recognizing these phases.

    I dont think we disagree all together. I just think you need to come to Bible Class Sir! LOL beg MME to help ya BT wid them lash lashes man!


  43. Zoe May 21, 2009 at 2:56 PM #

    Bush Tea, months ago, I gave you detailed Scriptural proof of the doctrine of the ‘trinity using many text from the New Testament that emphatically reveal the ‘Trinity’ of persons in the Eternal ‘Godhead’ that is, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

    While there is no use of the ‘term’ Trinity, in the New Testament, using the logic of equivalence and inference, we can coherently and cogently see plainly from a variety of text, that the Scriptures give us the revelation of the Eternal Godhead, who has revealed Himself as one God, existing in (three) Persons, even the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; distinguishable, BUT indivisible in essense; Co-eternal, Co-existent, Co-equal in nature, attributes, power and glory.

    There IS but One Eternal Godhead, who is one undivided and indivisible essence; and in this one essence there are three eternal Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    The term ‘Godhead’ is found in two places in the NT, Romans 1: 20, “His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and GODHEAD, so they are without excuse.”

    The second place is Colossians 2: 9.

    Speaking about Jesus, it states:

    “For in Him dwells ALL the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.”

    Paul states the heart of the message about the Person of Christ. There dwells (at home) IN Christ not one or more aspects of the Godhead, but, the very essence of God, from ‘theos deitas.’

    The emphasis here, IS, that “all the ‘pleroma’ of the Godhead” not just certain aspects of, dwells IN Christ, and IN bodily form ‘somatikos’ dwells now in Christ in His glorified humanity (Phil. 2: 9-11), “the body of His glory” ( toi somati tes doxes). The absolute fulness of the Godhead was in Christ before the Incarnation (John 1:14, 18; Phil. 2:6). It was the Son of God who became the likeness of men (Phil. 2:7).

    This asserts plainly the ‘Deity’ and the ‘humanity’ of Jesus Christ in corporeal form.

    Now, BT, while you don’t understrand the Bible in any comprehensive way, I believe you are nevertheless an intelligent man, even though you have this ‘blockage’ with the term ‘trinity.’

    Let us reason together, and look carefully, unemotionally, but, logically and coherently at a few passages that plainly teach and reveal the ‘trinity’ of Persons IN the Eternal ‘Godhead.’

    Following are a few of the Scriptures from the Gospels and Epistles which clearly show the ‘distinctions’ in the ‘Godhead’ as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These verses tell of ‘three’ distinct Persons, each having distinct ministry and function, YET, one in mind, one in essence, and one in the purpose, plan and operation of Redemption.

    Matthew 3: 16-17:

    The Father’s Voice which spoke from heaven.
    The Son of God in Jordan’s waters of baptism.
    The Holy Spirit descending bodily in the shape of a dove.

    Mathew 28: 19:

    Baptizing them into the Name
    of the Father
    and of the Son
    and of the Holy spirit.

    Note carefully, BT, it did NOT say, ‘names’ which would imply three gods, BUT, one ‘NAME’ that IS, the Godhead, constituting the ‘three’ distinct Person, distinguishable, yet, indivisible, within the Godhead.

    Matthew’s Gospel opens and closes with specific revelation of the ‘Godhead’ as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    John 14: 16-17:

    The Father hears the prayer of the Son
    The Son prays to the father
    The Holy spirit as the Comforter will be be given.

    I Corinthians 12: 4-6.

    Diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit (Holy spirit)
    Differences of ministrations, BUT the same Lord (The Son)
    Diversities of operations but the same God (The Father).

    Ephesians 2:18:

    Access unto – The Father
    through Him – The Son
    By one Spirit – The Holy Spirit

    Ephesians 4: 4-6:

    There is one Lord – The Father
    There is one Spirit – The Holy spirit
    There is one God – The Father

    II Corinthians 13:14:

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ – The Son,
    The Love of God – The Father,
    The Communion of the Holy spirit – the Spirit.

    BT, this is just a brief look from the Scriptures, showing plainly and clearly the ‘three’ distinct Persons of the Eternal ‘Godhead’ which gave rise to the reasonable, logical, conclusions of formally declaring as sound Biblical ‘doctrine’ the ‘Trinity’ as the Word of God, while it did not specifically use the term ‘trinity’ the absolute revelation in New Testament Scripture is so emphatic in showing the interconnectedness of the ‘three’ distinct Persons of the Godhead, that to conclude otherwise we be blinded ignorance.


  44. ROK May 21, 2009 at 3:04 PM #

    And madmen like Zoe still talking about spiritual PROOF and BIBLICAL PROOF.



  45. ROK May 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM #

    GHOST: The dilemma; To change Ghost to Spirit?????

    A ghost has been defined as the disembodied spirit or soul of a deceased person, although in popular usage the term refers only to the apparition of such a person. Often described as insubstantial and partly transparent, ghosts are reported to haunt particular locations or people that they were associated with in life or at time of death.

    Phantom armies, ghost-animals, ghost trains and phantom ships have also been reported.

    A poll conducted in 2003 showed that more than half of adults in the United States believe in ghosts and/or demons.

    Ghosts or similar paranormal entities appear in film, theatre, and literature; legends and myths, and some religions.

    A notion of the transcendent, supernatural or numinous, usually involving entities like ghosts, demons or deities, is a cultural universal shared by all human cultures. In pre-literate ethnic religions, these beliefs are often summarized under animism and ancestor worship.

    In many cultures malignant, restless ghosts are distinguished from the more benign spirits which are the subject of ancestor worship.

    Ancestor worship typically involves rites intended to prevent revenants, vengeful spirits of the dead, imagined as starving and envious of the living. Strategies for preventing revenants may either include sacrifice, i.e. the provision of the dead with food and drink in order to pacify them, or the magical banishment of the deceased, preventing them from returning by force. Ritual feeding of the dead is performed in traditions like the Chinese Ghost Festival or the Western All Souls’ Day. Magical banishment of the dead is present in many of the world’s burial customs. The bodies found in many tumuli (kurgan) had been ritually bound before burial, and the custom of binding the dead persists, for example, in rural Anatolia.

    Nineteenth-century anthropologist James Frazer stated in his classic work, The Golden Bough, that souls were seen as the creature within that animated the body.

    Ghosts and the afterlife
    Further information: Soul, Psyche, Underworld, Hungry ghost, and Psychopomp
    Further information: Ghost Festival, All Souls’ Day, and Day of the Dead

    Although the human soul was sometimes symbolically or literally depicted in ancient cultures as a bird or other animal, it was widely held that the soul was an exact reproduction of the body in every feature, even down to clothing the person wore. This is depicted in artwork from various ancient cultures, including such works as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which shows deceased people in the afterlife appearing much as they did before death, including the style of dress.


  46. ROK May 21, 2009 at 3:30 PM #

    That except above was from wiki. I keep telling people like GP and Zoe that you are changing the true culture of Christianity and in doing so, you are more and more “idolatarising” the faith.

    There is no doubt that the ancient people knew what was going on. We are here trying to change the thing to what we think it should be rather than move closer to the truth.

    So christians are moving it away in a fairy tale world of magic; with people who can appear out of thin air and a person existing as a “spirit” rather than a ghost; remembering too that a ghost is a thing that was once part of the living and now among the dead.

    I will tell you again that the ancient people knew what they were saying, why are we trying to change it to suit a utopian dream?


  47. ROK May 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM #

    “No one really cares about Einstein’s religious thoughts.

    I suppose we should care about GP’s thoughts who could not make it past being a GP by his own admission. I wonder if we don’t care about Einstein, why should we care about GP? After all, it was the brilliance, imagination, world view and a lot of things about Einstein that led to his observance of laws that we still cannot shatter today. Everything about Einstein is important

    This scant disrespect by christians, will surely not get them to their “heaven” and like Rev. Errington Massiah said, People like Zoe and GP can only be the enemy to christianity and the downfall of the religion. You guys spouting what you don’t understand and what you know nothing about.


  48. Gear Box May 21, 2009 at 5:35 PM #

    Man done dis t’read nuh…?



  49. Bush Tea May 21, 2009 at 7:09 PM #

    I agree with Gear Box…. (lord have mercy – never thought I would say that!! LOL).

    … GP /Zoe it would be great to continue this topic (which has strayed from the moot) maybe in a more appropriate thread.


  50. Georgie Porgie May 21, 2009 at 7:29 PM #

    I dont think that many ever addressed the moot from the beginning, at all. During the first week I made no contributions since I know nothing about the Qur’an, so I could not compare it with the Bible.


  51. Zoe May 21, 2009 at 8:47 PM #

    Professor ROK-HEAD, you are so engrossed, absorbed, engaged and immersed in your ‘imbecility, which you practice with such alarming alacrity, is really a such a JOKE, which I have a hearty laugh at!!!


  52. Bush Tea May 21, 2009 at 9:23 PM #

    @ Zoe… the way….

    I saw your post today at (Zoe // May 21, 2009 at 2:56 pm) and have decided to do you the courtesy of ignoring it.

    It is one of the most illogical, unreasoned and unhelpful postings on BU outside of PDC.

    I will seek to assist you in this matter on another thread….


  53. Zoe May 22, 2009 at 11:47 AM #

    BT, Man, I’m really surprised at you, I thought you could ‘reason’ logically, when sound, Biblical evidence, is provided that is basic common sense, that even a child would understand!

    BT, the JW’s Mormons, et al, like they got you proper, with their blatant heresy!

    1 + 1 + 1 = 3 (three) is three not the logical equivalence of the term ‘Trinity’? Is that not logical, and coherent?

    Therefore, when Jesus said:

    All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the ‘NAME’ (singular) of THE Father, and of THE Son, and of THE Holy Spirit.”

    As pointed out earlier, the use of the singular ‘Name’ and the definite article ‘The’ before each ‘Person’ of the eternal Godhead, grammatically, linguistically, and by logic, emphatically, show each Person, individually, and by the singular ‘Name’ collectively, meaning co-equalty, co-existence, as a ‘Trinity’ of Persons in the One ‘Godhead.’

    Plus, the numerous other passages throughout the New Testament, confirming, over and over again, the ‘Three’ distinguishable, yet, co-equal, ‘Trinity’ of Persons, which can be stubbornly denied, BUT, cannot be refuted with any senseable logic!


  54. Rohan May 23, 2009 at 6:29 PM #

    It is hilarious watching Zoe and Bush Tea go back and forth about LOGIC!

    You guys are hilarious!

    By the way, aren’t you supposed to be believing by faith? You know faith:

    “Strong belief in something for which there is no proof”.

    Isn’t that supposed to be a virtue? So just come out and say it: “I Bush Tea/Zoe believe in all this crap for which I have no proof, and do so with strong convictions!”

    Then you can go back instructing each other on “Logic”..haha


  55. Rohan May 24, 2009 at 12:59 AM #

    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
    Yup,this sounds really logical. I can see why a “logical” person would believe this…right Bush Tea/Zoe et al.


  56. Ready-Done May 28, 2009 at 1:06 AM #

    Jesus story is not even original, the first Jesus story was the virgin Isis giveing birth to hours (google isis)

    We must believe in something and if we evolved from monkeys who made them?

    It best to believe in your self or mother nature.


  57. David June 13, 2009 at 9:13 AM #

    Looks like Brother Grenville is soldiering on with his book.

    Click HERE to see what he is up to.

    Good luck to him.


  58. Mark November 20, 2009 at 10:09 PM #

    Would love to hear your comments and ideas regarding this post and clip:


  59. Jesus Now December 29, 2010 at 9:00 PM #

    What would Jesus say to you now?


  60. Soph10 January 26, 2011 at 2:02 PM #

    Where is the Qur’an kept?


  61. Trees For Sale Online September 23, 2013 at 12:53 AM #

    After I initially left a comment I appear to have clicked on the -Notify me when new comments are
    added- checkbox and from now on every time a comment is added I recieve 4 emails with the same comment.
    Perhaps there is a way you can remove me from that service?


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